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Iver

FJO - knights cross

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My newest... FJO - R, hallmarked gold (3 "chamois head" A), makers mark V.Mayer´s söhne in Wien. Unfortunatly ennamel on lower arm on reverse damaged, but still a nice piece... is it maybe possible to identify better the period like pre (or beginning) WWI?

Edited by Iver

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Doubtlessly a lovely order love.gif, you could put close up photos including the open locket ?

Best regards

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Hi iver, a nice one. IMHO you can't date the FJO by modell-variants as there are only two types, small crown, filigran non-hallmarked braun-pieces from 1850 to 1867. Then came new hallmark-system. the most variants i know (beside austrian pieces in bronze/gilt, gold and silver/gilt) come from foreign manufacters. In late 1917 and 1918 clumsier (no red enameled crown-inlay instead the crown was enameld on the outsied marked HUW) were awarded. So there is some variety in austrian-made bronze/gilt pieces dating from 1914 to 1922 (new hallmarks again)

Fotos: a bronze/gilt pioece once in my possesion.

regards

josef

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Josef: Thanks for info... I have never seen a FJO-R made this way (ennaled crown from outside). Mini is superb, as well as chain for FJO - knights miniatures.. its made of gold, silver or bronze?

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Josef: Thanks for info... I have never seen a FJO-R made this way (ennaled crown from outside). Mini is superb, as well as chain for FJO - knights miniatures.. its made of gold, silver or bronze?

I have never seen a fjo-knights-chain that wasn't made of gold. I would consider silver or gilt-pieces as rarities.

regards

josef

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sorry, my mistake, the question about marial should be on miniature, not on chain..

its one month back I could buy a chain with minis, incl. FJO - R .. unfortunatly no minimum cca 750EUR free to spent on it.. :( first three are hallmarked silver - gild, the others without any marks, bronze i think...

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Doubtlessly a lovely order love.gif, you could put close up photos including the open locket ?

Best regards

"...the open locket." I've had a Commander's cross for many years, and never heard of / knew about the open locket. Is it found on many / most / all FJO? (Mine is currently sealed up in a display case, so I can't get at it to see - Aaaargh!)

Hugh

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For what I know, all FJO knight crosses in real gold have a locket in the back, in case of a Commander cross (yours is an beautylove.gif ), I do not know it.

Best regards

Enrique

Edited by palencia

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"...the open locket." I've had a Commander's cross for many years, and never heard of / knew about the open locket. Is it found on many / most / all FJO? (Mine is currently sealed up in a display case, so I can't get at it to see - Aaaargh!)

Hugh

@Hugh

Only real gold pieces have the locket.

Hugh, I don't want to drop a brick. But your commanderscross with swords (must e a bronze/gilt piece) looks to me like an good 1960ies/70ies copy. why do i think so. cause of the missing flingierung under the red enamel. means that the there is a certain kind of pattern UNDER the enamel - that is missing here.

the enamel ON the crown is missing aswell

regards

josef

Edited by Josef Rietveld

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As palencia wrote, all crosses made of gold had open locket. Commander cross with WD and swords was awarded only few times and marko (marko writes 7), made of gild bronze... but Yours looks not "OK" to me..

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FJO in gold, in bronze......and the mine: an FJO in silver (G.A.Scheid, dianahead 3A)

fjo1.jpg

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..and a "bandspange mit auflage" .. :)

Edited by Iver

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@Hugh

Only real gold pieces have the locket.

Hugh, I don't want to drop a brick. But your commanderscross with swords (must e a bronze/gilt piece) looks to me like an good 1960ies/70ies copy. why do i think so. cause of the missing flingierung under the red enamel. means that the there is a certain kind of pattern UNDER the enamel - that is missing here.

the enamel ON the crown is missing aswell

regards

josef

Thanks, Josef and Iver,

Yes, thanks, no brick, I knew that mine was an early '60's Rothe copy. I'll have a look when I open the case to see if they put the locket in. I suspect not; you'd think it would have been obvious.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Hugh

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Seeing the Urkunde peeping out from under Josef's Order reminds me that I have a 1905 "Almamac" of Franz Josef Order recipients that might be useful to anyone looking for information on named photos or award documents from before that year:

It includes many foreigners, though the editor stated it was unfortunately not totally complete because many recipients did not reply to queries for biographical data and information on their other awards.

So not to hijack this thread on the ORDERS, but anyone looking for pre-1905 data on RECIPIENTS post separate new threads and I'll see what I can tell you from this volume.

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Hello,

yes, the commander's cross with KD and swords is a Rothe-made copy, although very well made. Usually, even gold original pieces made by Rothe, don't have the hinged reverse medallion.

Besides this detail, I can say that in the history of the Franz Josef Orden, the earliest pieces made by Kittner, have a fix reverse medallion. Starting from the Resch-made decorations, we begin to see this interesting characteristic.

The Almanach posted by Rick is a fine piece of documentation: more "handy" than the other, huge, book "Der Oesterreichisch Kaiserliche Franz Josef Orden und seine Mitglieder"...

Best wishes,

Enzo

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Just arrived... FJO-R, silver gild, marked on the ring "HUW" (Heinrich Ulbricht´s Witwe) and hallmark "A with wings"...

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..marks on ring.. (not much to see, but i will try to make a better photo :D )

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