5 place bavarian

[avadski]

Gents,

I have no knowledge on medal bars but in the short period I've spent on this forum I hope I learnt at least something.

So let's test me...

This one is currently being sold 'somewhere' and here I try to summarize why I believe it's a fake.

1) At first since there's MVK3X and Honor Cross with swords we can say that this one belonged to a combatant.

2) Then we have here 2 medals - Luitpold Medal and Ludwig's cross - awarded for efforts done on the homefront - both on incorrect ribbon (or is the Luitpold's only faded out?). Ludwig's Cross is on long service ribbon? So combatant vs. non combatant?

3) Then the Long Service Cross - I believe it's for 15 Years as a Reserve Officer? Shouldn't there be an MVO instead of MVK since guy was an officer?

So am I correct on at least 50%? ;)

[HeikoGrusdat]

A picture of the back would be good but as far as I can see there is only one real problem with that bar... the Ludwigskreuz is wrong there... change the Ludwigskreuz against a Third Reich officials DA ( 25 years cross I think...) and then the bar makes sense.... Luitpold medal is ok , ribbon is right... all ribbons are folded in bavarian style , the only thing the soldier has to think about is why he did not get a EK2 and the only thing I have to think about is that a MVK with crown and swords would make more sense for a nco.... but it seems that the medals are hanging on hooks at the back so you can change whatever you want.... :sleep:

[Ulan]

A picture of the back would be good but as far as I can see there is only one real problem with that bar... the Ludwigskreuz is wrong there... change the Ludwigskreuz against a Third Reich officials DA ( 25 years cross I think...) and then the bar makes sense.... Luitpold medal is ok , ribbon is right... all ribbons are folded in bavarian style , the only thing the soldier has to think about is why he did not get a EK2 and the only thing I have to think about is that a MVK with crown and swords would make more sense for a nco.... but it seems that the medals are hanging on hooks at the back so you can change whatever you want....

Saw that medal bar too, and had some stomach flaws in regards to the DA ribbon.

Agree to your post, but shouldn't the Jubilaeums Medaille show a red ribbon with green outlines?

Regards

Ulan

[HeikoGrusdat]

the green can be faded out...... but from this picture not 100% to say....... if not it could be a medal for Tirol , would also make sense on that bar...

[saschaw]

Tyrol medal had a much different ribbon. All fine about this bar, only the last decoration is a non-matching replacement. TrD25 would fit best here.

[Guest Rick Research]

The green edges on the Luitpold Jubilee have simply faded away. Which reverse is on that medal?

Of course as already mentioned, on hook backs anything can be swapped for anything, so no way to tell what has always been on there. But the ribbons and bar itself-- from the front-- appear fine for a Third Reich bar to an under-decorated Bavarian NCO veteran.

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello:

This MIGHT be OK. But, the lack of an EKII is not usual. It seems that it is possible to not have received it though. This fellow was in the Bavarian Army in 1905 and received the Jubilee medal (the ribbon looks OK, and is probably faded a bit). This award screams "old soldier", and has nothing to do with being in a non-combat role. It only concerns being in the Army long-before 1914. He was then still in the Army during the 1914-1918 conflict and received the MVKIII with swords (perhaps as an NCO who was in an administrative position of some sort?). There is no "beamten" ribbon, but I guess that such a thing was possible. He was awarded the 15 Year Service Cross as an NCO (he was never an Officer). He then survived into the 1930's and received his Hindenburg Cross with Swords and his 25 Year Third Reich Civil Service Cross (missing). Perhaps the Ludwig Cross belonged to a relative or his wife and was just stuck there by someone. It is difficult to be certain without seeing the back of the group and handling it, if the group's basic construction is genuine.

Best regards,

"SPM"

[Ulsterman]

I can attest (from trawling through several obscure Bavarian artillery units rolls) that it was quite possible for an "old soldier" to get only a Bav. MVK3x and naught else for an entire wars' service at the front. It was also possible for a dullard ( or someone naughty) to never make it past Gefrieter.

As I recall from Ricks' postings, service (in regular units)in 14-18 was counted double time and Bavaria continued to hand out LS medals until 1920/21.

I strongly suspect that Bavarian Reservists, war volunteers and Landwehr men also got the wartime double count. I have seen a couple of instances where reservists got the LS medals.

[Guest Rick Research]

The Luitpold here would have made more sense as the 1911 version, which is why I asked what reverse it bears. Could just as well be the "Christmas 1918" Medal handed out to royalists in the 1920s on the same ribbon.

Since only Kapitulanten got either Luitpold, doesn't seem too likely that a reservist had this. Possible that a career enlistee was discharged years early and somehow got a BLD2 (your wartime discoveries continue to both amaze and vex me since I cannot explain them in "normal channels" of enlistees' careers) but these are what I see as potential

1) MVK3X or MVK3XmKr. I doubt a higher grade would have been earned without sliding in an Iron Cross too. I've never seen a documented group to an NCO that senior without "the usual" pair.

2) Hindenburg X remains as is

3) 1911 version Luitpold Army Jubilee Medal (with the dumb crowned 1905 reverse, not 1905 issue's long text) or the "Christmas" medal

4) could be Bavarian IX, XII, XV or Bavarian LD2

5) Could be Third Reich civil service 25 or an R.A.D. long service medal, or less likely Polizei 8.

Lots of variables with hook backs-- which is why I prefer medal bars that are sceurely fastened!