How to remove Tobacco Strains - Enameled Medal

[AlecH]

Hi Everyone,

I've been offered this German Fire Brigade Medal in Bronze - trouble is, as you can see, is the front is covered in tobacco stains, as anyone an idea how I can remove them without damaging the enamel and how good a result can I expect ? poor, moderately good, good?.

Regards

[FireMedals]

AlecH,

If the stain is tobacco, it's an organic compound, and I would try acetone / nail polish remover. Apply a light coat with a q-tip and see if some of the stain comes off on the cotton. If it does, keep applying until you get to a finish you can live with. Then rinse in warm water. If it doesn't come off, it may not be tobacco, and might require a soaking in warm water and a gentle scrubbing with the old soft toothbrush with soft/liquid soap. One or the other usually works for me.

BTW can you post a photo of the reverse of the medal?

Firemedals

[leigh kitchen]

I would'nt rinse or soak an enamelled piece in water, water seeping in between the enamel & metal would not be good, I'd use a cotton bud barely dampened with warm soapy water & a toothbrush if need be.

[Brian Wolfe]

I agree that it looks like a tobacco stain but how did you determine this?

In the past I have cleaned enamelled equipment that has had very heavy tobacco staining. The worst was a meat scale where the butcher had set his lit cigarett in the ash tray just under the edge of the tray where the meat would be weighed. Years and years of smoke flowing under the scale had left it looking like it was coated with brown lacquer. We would never be allowed, by law, to smoke in a butcher shop in this day and age. I used a cleaner, I think it was in a spray bottle and called "Janitor In A Drum" but any spray cleaner such as "Fantastic" should work. Don't spray the medal but use a Q-tip and soft tooth brush as previously suggested.

I like vinegar as a cleaner but remember that it is an acid (5% Acetic or Ethanolic acid) so care not to leave the acid on too long is important. Any all-metal medals may be immersed in the vinegar and this is where it is very important to be very careful as to their time of exposure.

Good luck and please post your finished restoration.

Regards

Brian

[AlecH]

Thanks for the posts,

If I try your recommendations - How good a result can I expect ? poor, moderately good, good, is tobacco smoke so hard to remove ? other examples of this medal show the enamel is pearly white, mine is a long way short.

Regards

[Guest Rick Research]

I too would use nothing stronger than a soapy Q-tip (ear swab) lightly dabbed.

I cannot imnagine HOW "tobacco" would coat enamel like that-- where in God's name was the medal stored? So it may be something completely different like damp rust staining absorbed from being in a damp tin... or ?????

I wouldn't try ANYTHING chemical, which might not only peel off the metal plating, but also soak into the pores of the enamel.

It will either come off with a little damp soap, or it is ruined.

[Brian Wolfe]

Thanks for the posts,

If I try your recommendations - How good a result can I expect ? poor, moderately good, good, is tobacco smoke so hard to remove ? other examples of this medal show the enamel is pearly white, mine is a long way short.

Regards

Tobacco smoke stains are extremely easy to clean so Rick's suggestion to use only a Q-tip soaked in soapy water may do the trick IF it is indeed from cigarette smoke. Just water will not likely work as the tobacco tar will repell the water so making the water "wetter", which is what soap will do, is needed. When I was cleaning the butcher's scale I mention earlier the tar, which is what it actually is, ran off as a liquid as soon as the cleaner touched it.

Think about what tobacco smoke is doing to lungs! End of sermon.

Regards

Brian

Edited September 26, 2009 by Brian Wolfe

[Les]

You need to know a little about what enamel is before doing anything. Enamel originally meant melted glass or silicates, but later came to include various paste materials that resemble hardened glass, but are not.

Prior to WWII, Gerrman medals were usually made using glass or silica beads to make enameled medals. Metals for cooking and so on, were often coated with "enamel" paints that didn't contain glass or silicates, and then baked at high temperatures.Plastic compounds in recent years have been used as a replacement material for actual glass/silicate based enamels. Determining if your medal is real enamel, or some other material is the first step.

True glass compounds are impervious to most acids and related compounds, with the exception of hydrofluoric acid...which will etch glass. That's why it's used in the chemical industries for items such as test tubes, beakers, condensers, tubing, etc.

Brian has pointed out that tobacco is an organic compound, which can be removed by solvents. If your medal is true enamel, the glass will not be effected providing it is not rubbed or cleaned with anything abrasive. The metal parts of the medal are another matter.

If your "enamel" is a plastic material, the tobacco will have chemically bonded with the plastic, and the color change will be difficult to impossible to remove. The same thing happens in households were people smoke. Computers with off-white plastic monitor covers and the like, turn yellow when exposed to smoke.

Try a small spot with something along the lines of an alcohol solution and wet/soften the tobacco. Let the solution stand for a minute or so. Most of the alcohol will evaporate quickly and not harm the metal part of the medal. Then use a soft cotton cloth to wipe it. Try it once or twice more to see if that helps.

If all else fails, rumor has it that sandblasting using cement grit at 200psi works wonders and can turn that thing into something looking like Mount Rushmore. (kidding...)

Les

[leigh kitchen]

Ye Olde Traditionale Englishe Pube, sorry, pub-ee, is a great place to see the effects of decades of tobacco smoke - silver coloured items get coated a golden colour & are slightly sticky, it really is a case of believing that something is of brass before cleaning it & discovering it's white metal.

[Les]

Ye Olde.....Englishe Pube.... is a great place to.... get coated a golden colour &.... slightly sticky.....

After two too many in the old sticky pubes reading impairment can set in, and all of those things can happen -after- last call. Ok...sorry for the regression.

The same can happen in or out of a German Raathaus,Stuben or elsewhere.

[Brian Wolfe]

Les makes some VERY good points concerning enamelled items.

Lets consider another approach and do nothing! Really, I mean it. What is on that medal, tobacco tar, rust, whatever was deposited through the lifetime of the medal. Perhaps you should consider leaving it alone. A nice like-new medal is alright but shows no character or personality.

Quick story:

I just received a group from India consisting of the India Independence Medal, 1939-45 Star, Burma Star, Defence Medal and 1939-45 War Medal. No more details as I will be posting it later. I purchased this group for many reasons but one was because it was already mounted with the original ribbons. The ribbons showed white stains from the brass polish that had been used by the recipient years ago. The stars now have a deep patina so the polish has been on the ribbons for a long time. When I received the group the dealer had disassembled the group so the shipping package could be smaller and therefore cheaper to post. I have the original ribbons but no backing board or pin attachment device. Since I like court mounting medals this is not a problem. The question is, now that they are no longer mounted do I remount using new ribbons or use the old ribbons complete with the stains? Or try to clean the ribbons. There is a post regarding this on the forum but the consiences of the respondents to the post is to NOT try to clean old ribbons. I shall proceed to mount this group using the original ribbons and the tailor's original needle holes to produce something close to the group as it was owned by the brave Havildar (same as a Sergeant) who was awarded these medals. Ok, so it was a long story.

At least consider leaving this medal as is, you may be removing some of its personality.

Regards

Brian

[Alex K]

Looking at the original image, the discolourisation doesn't look uniform as "White bits" are showing through, (The original colour?), this suggests to me that the medal may well have been "Oversprayed" with a protective coat of -  say laquer to keep it looking new. this laquer may have discolourised due to environmental reasons ( Smoking etc etc) and broken up revealing the clear surface underneath. 

Solution, I would suggest as others have, a mild cleansing in a soapy solution, although I doubt this will work as the original surface finish is permanently contaminated. You then have to choose to either remove the original laquer (Drastic" to reveal the true under finish or leave alone and accept as mentioned before that in this case it's merelly showing a part of it's true history. depends on which is more important to you the medal, or a prestiegne example of the medal. If it's the latter wait until a "Mint version" comes along and then buy it.

regards

Alex K

[AlecH]

Hello Gentlemen,

Thanks everyone for their cogent and multifarious posts. The most negative thing uppermost in my mind, was the thought of buying the medal (at a good price) then finding I couldn't remove enough of the tobacco stains, making the buying price a bad one. Last night after leaving the pub, I decided to go for it, called by the sellers home, picked it up. At home, laid the medal on the table, spat on it, then rubbed it with a handkerchief - spit and elbow grease - abracadabra this came out. I'm happy with the result - now to start thinking, how to clean up the ribbon. Once again thanks everyone for the impute.

Best Wishes

[Alex K]

Well just goes to show, the old "Spit and polish" technique still works, has come out well

regards

Alex

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo AlecH,

A great clean-up job with regards the medal, however, just a note of caution with regards ribbons, great care must be taken with regards these as the old dyes used in the colour process are notorious for running even when placed into cold water.

Depending on the age condition of the ribbon, one could be tempted to reverse the ribbon (turn it inside out)presenting the fresh side out, but if it were left to me I would leave it as is.

Kevin in Deva. :cheers:

[Brian Wolfe]

:lol: Spit and elbow grease!

Funny how often going back to basics works.

A very nice job indeed, well done.

Regards

Brian

[farmer]

Hallo AlecH,

A great clean-up job with regards the medal, however, just a note of caution with regards ribbons, great care must be taken with regards these as the old dyes used in the colour process are notorious for running even when placed into cold water.

Depending on the age condition of the ribbon, one could be tempted to reverse the ribbon (turn it inside out)presenting the fresh side out, but if it were left to me I would leave it as is.

Kevin in Deva.

Hello,

Very interesting thread.

To add to Kev's post - OLD ribbon's watermarking (moiré) will often suffer if exposed to water (spit) etc. This can vary from partial to complete 'vanishing' of the marking.

Shall one want/need to clean their piece - try removing ribbon. This of course varies with each medal/order but in some cases jump rings are not sealed (soldered) and can be lightly bent to remove (together with ribbon). Of course, handling of old and often fragile ribbons can result in damage and we all know how hard it is to find old stock ribbon to replace (if even possible in many cases).

From my experience: typically, French and Swiss made ribbons are very delicate in that regard. German, Dutch and Belgian produced ribbons will 'take' it better. English, Austrian and Italian ribbons seem to be most durable.