Afghanistan Victorian Medal Group

[Mervyn Mitton]

Darrell - I will just post one picture - it clearly shows the violence of the conflict. The explanation is clear and this was the front page of the Illustrated London News. I wonder what bravery award the Lieut. received - would be interesting if someone could look him up .

[Mervyn Mitton]

Will repeat the caption - it looks rather small.

[Guest Darrell]

I've read up on some of the 1st hand accounts of these battles during this time frame. Some of the wounds suffered due to swords and spears would have been pretty awful. Of course wounds are wounds no matter how inflicted.

[Guest Darrell]

Well .... the research came in a few days ago. Not as many answers as I would have liked, but interesting none the less. It appears that Penn Sr. did have quite a family -- a total of 6 children, 1 of which was named Thomas Henry Penn. More than likely the ISM belongs to him. The WW1 service records were being viewed by someone else, so that may have to be another day.

Appears he made 3 different tours in India, 1 in Afghanistan and 1 in South Africa during his almost 23 years of service from July 1874 through Feb 1894.

1. Attestation Papers:

[Guest Darrell]

Description at Attestation. Once again, it's quite amazing how small these soldiers were during this period. Most of us would have been giants living back then.

5 ft 4 1/2 inches

[Guest Darrell]

Statement of Service 1:

[Guest Darrell]

Statement of Services 2:

Interesting to note -- "Transferred to Madras unattached list 15 Sep 1891 for employment in the Burma State Railway Volunteer Corps as a 2nd Class Sergeant Instructor"

[Guest Darrell]

Military History Sheet:

[Guest Darrell]

Closeup of the details of service locations:

[Guest Darrell]

The following are a series of Medical History Sheets:

a.

[Guest Darrell]

b.

[Guest Darrell]

c.

[Guest Darrell]

d.

[Guest Darrell]

Marriage and Baptism Sheet. This shows his wife and siblings. Among them at the top is his son Thomas Henry Penn. The one whom the ISM belongs to.

[Guest Darrell]

Closeup of the names:

[Guest Darrell]

Finally the official Medal Rolls confirming the Afghan Medal (w/ Clasps) and the Kandahar Star. NOTE* This first sheet is attached for the header information. The next page shows Penn's name.

a.

[Guest Darrell]

b.

[Guest Darrell]

Closeup:

[Jeanette]

b.

Hi, I have an interest in the 2nd Afghan War, I am trying to find any mention of a James Carter,he was born 1861, so the dates for this are right, he was in The 8th Hussars, I have tried for so long to find any trace of him anywhere, I wonder if you can hep? I have a picture of him posted on here, I recently confirmed his badge was 8th Hussar, the Harp. It just interested me to find a Carter on your list here, doesn't look like James though. Are there any lists of soldiers who fought in the Hussars at all?. Well, hope I haven't bothered you,

Kind regards Jeanette Newton.

[Guest Darrell]

Hi, I have an interest in the 2nd Afghan War, I am trying to find any mention of a James Carter,he was born 1861, so the dates for this are right, he was in The 8th Hussars, I have tried for so long to find any trace of him anywhere, I wonder if you can hep? I have a picture of him posted on here, I recently confirmed his badge was 8th Hussar, the Harp. It just interested me to find a Carter on your list here, doesn't look like James though. Are there any lists of soldiers who fought in the Hussars at all?. Well, hope I haven't bothered you,

Kind regards Jeanette Newton.

Jeanette,

I found him on the 8th Hussars Medal Roll. Regimental Number 2083. He qualified for the Afghan Medal but it appears no clasps or the Bronze Kabul to Kandahar Star (obviously).

I can email you a larger scan if you like.

[Jeanette]

Jeanette,

I found him on the 8th Hussars Medal Roll. Regimental Number 2083. He qualified for the Afghan Medal but it appears no clasps or the Bronze Kabul to Kandahar Star (obviously).

I can email you a larger scan if you like.

Hi Darrell,

So that is James Carter, he was my Great Grandad, I am really flabberghasted!, This is marvellous, you have made me so happy mate. If he qualified for the Afghan Medal, would you know what action he may have seen, and where?.My son and I are trying to get a picture of what life was like for those soldiers, his photo is on my sideboard. I don't know much about clasps, or Bronze Kabul to Kandahar Star, would he have not been in the march to Kandahar?. I cannot wait to tell my Mother, we have tried so long to get any information on him, and I would love a copy of larger scan to be sent to me , simply marvellous. Anything on him is a bonus. Hope all my words have made sense, I am so pleased.

Kind Regards Jeanette Newton.

[Mervyn Mitton]

' One Happy Camper' Darrell. Great that you were able to help - seems to make it all worth-while.

[Guest Darrell]

Hi Darrell,

So that is James Carter, he was my Great Grandad, I am really flabberghasted!, This is marvellous, you have made me so happy mate. If he qualified for the Afghan Medal, would you know what action he may have seen, and where?.My son and I are trying to get a picture of what life was like for those soldiers, his photo is on my sideboard. I don't know much about clasps, or Bronze Kabul to Kandahar Star, would he have not been in the march to Kandahar?. I cannot wait to tell my Mother, we have tried so long to get any information on him, and I would love a copy of larger scan to be sent to me , simply marvellous. Anything on him is a bonus. Hope all my words have made sense, I am so pleased.

Kind Regards Jeanette Newton.

That is interesting Jeanette.

According to my sources, the 8th Hussars did take part in and were eligible (if they actually were there) to the Clasps for the battles or actions at Peiwar Kotal (2 December 1878), Charisia (6 October 1879) and Kabul (10-23 December 1879).

If you could get his service records, it would likely open up a whole new avenue to explore.

Here is a person you could contact. He will give you some advice on what to do to get any records for him:

(Meurig Jones in the UK - tell him I sent you )

info@casus-belli.co.uk

You can also read up a little more about this time here:

http://www.garenewin...angloafghanwar/

Hope that helps.

Here is a closer view of his name listed. It looks like a real fancy way of writing James. A couple of other James are right above him for comparison.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Darrell

[Jeanette]

That is interesting Jeanette.

According to my sources, the 8th Hussars did take part in and were eligible (if they actually were there) to the Clasps for the battles or actions at Peiwar Kotal (2 December 1878), Charisia (6 October 1879) and Kabul (10-23 December 1879).

If you could get his service records, it would likely open up a whole new avenue to explore.

Here is a person you could contact. He will give you some advice on what to do to get any records for him:

(Meurig Jones in the UK - tell him I sent you )

info@casus-belli.co.uk

You can also read up a little more about this time here:

http://www.garenewin...angloafghanwar/

Hope that helps.

Here is a closer view of his name listed. It looks like a real fancy way of writing James. A couple of other James are right above him for comparison.

Hi Darrell,

Once again thank you so much for your hard work in finding this out for us, I certainly will look up Meurig Jones and ask for advice on how to proceed. We were told by Kew Gardens that lots of records were lost in the Blitz and that we didn't have much hope of finding anything on him, well, you have done marvels for us, we were so excited, can't tell you!. I will look up that website too, it is so nice, I posted a picture of James Carter on here ages ago, and everybody here has been such a help.

My son just noticed on the first pic you sent us, to the very right of his name in the same row that is, it says' Forfeited', does that mean anything?.

My Great Grandad was born in 1861, Iden, Sussex, he died 1915-16 thereabouts, I am guessing he left the Hussars around the 1898's-early 1900's as my Grandfather[his son] John Samuel Carter was born in 1908.

My Grandfather always told me he[James] was a very private person, told him of two horses he had in the military,his love of horses never left him so my Grandad said, they were his lifeline and he would not mention any action he saw, sadly James died when he[John] was 8-9 years old. James was working as a Stevedore on London Docks in the E16 area of London when he fell into a dry dock [sad end for a soldier eh]. He left his wife Alice Marie with 8 children, she had to turn to Cobbling for a living to survive. I wonder if she got army pension?.

Well, I thought I would just tell you a little of the background of the man you found for us, always nice to put a story to the people I reckon.

If my Grandad had been alive he would have been so pleased, he never knew his Dad was in the Hussars, my Mum and I got very emotional, just to have some proof of where he was is great, my Mum always wanted to know about the Grandad she never got to meet, we had the picture of him and his name and that was all. I have collated every bit of information possible on him, and, once again Darrell, I cannot thank you enough, so grateful for your help, I think you deserve a medal!!!!.

Kind regards Jeanette Newton.

[Guest Darrell]

...

My son just noticed on the first pic you sent us, to the very right of his name in the same row that is, it says' Forfeited', does that mean anything?.

Not sure why I never noticed that .. but yes ... it does say that. Again, maybe some research would find out the reason why.

As far as the records, yes ... once you start getting back in time it's uncertain what will be left. At least he survived, that is a good thing. Many soldiers that died back in the 1800's had their records destroyed. This quite often leads to a dead end. Worth a check regardless.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Darrell