Hello and some red cross medals

[Kryptos]

New to the area of Japanese medals and looking for a friendly place to discuss these items.

As an icebreaker, my first additions. Red Cross membership and special membership medals.

[Dieter3]

Welcome! I haven't focused on Red Cross medals quite yet, though I do have a handful. I really like the variety available in both men's and women's, the different cases, and various rosettes that are available. I'm still trying to make heads or tales of exactly which medals are appropriate to which types of cases and their proper rosettes. Basically doing a LOT of auction watching and picture analysis. Yes, I do have too much time on my hands, but it amuses me...........and I am making progress, or so I think.

[Kryptos]

Thank you Dieter!

I am a self confessed utter noob to the Japanese area. Started with the Red Cross area as my main collection is Red Cross related so at least there is a bit of a link. But yes, being thoroughly overwhelmed with what is available. Not being able to read Kanji also does not really help with matters at this stage, but I have had a love for Japanese culture for years and have always wanted to branch out into this area.

Looking forward to many interesting discussions (although it will probably be a good while before I can add anything usefull in this area ).

[Dieter3]

I wouldn't worry too much about the kanji! As far as reading them and knowing what they say is less important than what kanji are appropriate to a particular case or medal. Not too often, but you do find items up for auction that are in the wrong cases so it pays to learn what is correct and what is not for a particular medal. But if you do become serious about Japanese items, there are a couple of very good reference books out there that would be handy for you, granted they don't have an intense level of detail on cases, rosettes, or other "peripherals" - something I'm interested in, almost as much as the medals themselves!

[Kryptos]

I wouldn't worry too much about the kanji! As far as reading them and knowing what they say is less important than what kanji are appropriate to a particular case or medal. Not too often, but you do find items up for auction that are in the wrong cases so it pays to learn what is correct and what is not for a particular medal. But if you do become serious about Japanese items, there are a couple of very good reference books out there that would be handy for you, granted they don't have an intense level of detail on cases, rosettes, or other "peripherals" - something I'm interested in, almost as much as the medals themselves!

Thank you Dieter!

Yeah, need to skill myself up in this area now. I know of two books in the area, the one by Paul Murphy and the other one by Peterson. Still need to get my grubbies on them, though. Making serious use of Richard's site. If there is anything else you know about with regards to reference material in English please let me know .

[Dieter3]

Here is another resource forum for you to check out if you haven't discovered it yet:

http://www.omsa.org/forums/index.php

Both of the books you mention are very good. Paul's book has a lot more info on Red Cross Medals than does the other. There are a couple of very good Japanese reference books as well, but they are only in Japanese but worth having even if you can't read them!

[Paul L Murphy]

Kryptos,

You can send me a private message or email if you are interested in buying a copy of my book. It makes a great Christmas present.

Cheers,

Paul

[Kryptos]

Thanks for the info, will definitely make use of it.

[Kryptos]

Some more to show.

[Dieter3]

Nice!! I have yet to acquire any life membership medals, the ones I see are never in the best condition, or missing rosettes, etc. Yours look good!!

Here is my small collection, minus a few Russo-Japan War commemorative medallions that I have:

I think the rosette to the Special Memebers medal in the wooden box is incorrect though, almost all of them that I see have the rosettes like the one in the lacquer box. I see that fancier type rosette with the merit medals. I've still got a long way to go on collecting Red Cross medals, but they are awesome, and they don't break the bank compared to some of the other goodies!

[Kryptos]

Thanks Dieter. Sitting here and drooling over yours as well . And know what you say in terms of the affordability. My main collection is German so this was like a breath of fresh air for the bank .

[Dieter3]

You are brave for branching out!! I've restricted myself to Japanese stuff, that's hard enough on the wallet!! It's just too dang addictive and enjoyable to collect, but I've still gotta put food on the table. There are certainly other areas that interest me, but I'll need to win the lotto first!

[Kryptos]

Yeah, may probably end up regretting it but hey, not too much when I look at the collection . I have had in interest in Japanese art and culture for many, many years and have found myself involved in many of the artforms so this has been an 'accident' waiting to happen since the day I started collecting militaria .

[Kryptos]

New additon to the Red Cross grouping.

This one with award doc. Dated 5 October 1943.

[Paul L Murphy]

I'm afraid the document and medal do not go together. The document is for a "Full Member" which is the term used for a normal member of the society, whereas the medal is for a Special Member.

[Dieter3]

I remember seeing this one for sale - the pouch seemed unique in that the interior looked to be an issue document - a document turned into a pouch! Am I right? Is this the one I'm thinking about?

[Kryptos]

@ Paul: Thank you. So we learn. Actually got the group for the award doc more than anything else. Will need to find a nice WWII era full member medal to go with it. Sadly I can help myself with the date so far but the rest of the kanji is still a bit of a challenge.

@ Dieter: Indeed the one you are thinking of :rolleyes:

[Dieter3]

The Red Cross documents are cool, and they don't seem to be too common either! (Which is kinda puzzling to me, the medals aren't exactly rare!....???)

[Kryptos]

Interesting indeed.

Were all RC medals accompanied by a document upon presentation?

Suppose like all paper items, the docs are not quite as resistant to the test of time as the medals are.

[Dieter3]

Honestly?? That's a question for Paul. I'd imagine the answer is yes. They do seem fairly uncommon, I've only got one myself from Meiji 22 (1889). Pretty good shape, basic member's, similar to yours, but different colors (no yellow!). I've only ever seen one document for a RC Order of Merit, but it was more elaborate, similar to the other orders with the image of the medal at the bottom center.

I'd love to see some more pics. of what people have in the way of red cross documents!!

[Kryptos]

Thanks for the info Dieter. Just considering how common these items are one would at least expect the docs to be easy to find. Why I was wondering if the severe discrepancy is caused by some items being given without docs?

And great idea! Would love to see some more Red Cross docs!

Paul, could we pehaps twist your arm to show some? :whistle:

[Laurence Strong]

Interesting indeed.

Were all RC medals accompanied by a document upon presentation? Suppose like all paper items, the docs are not quite as resistant to the test of time as the medals are.

According to Paul's book "In the Name of a Living God" the answer is "Yes"

Here is my collection...not very big, the top left is the 1904-05 Sino/Soviet one with a suspension and ribbon added by the ownner perhaps.

[Dieter3]

Nice! Thanks for sharing!

These are not mine, but here are a couple of pics. I have of some other medals/docs:

This is a nice set, but I don't think it is correct - the document is too old and the medal looks too new (at least to me it looks like an aluminum medallion, and if I understand things correctly, that case is a 1930s+ case). Paul, can you comment on this??

Edited January 6, 2010 by Dieter3

[Dieter3]

Here's an order of merit document, early Showa, and what I can only assume is the tube it came in. Wish I would have bought it, it wasn't overly expensive, but I didn't for whatever reason.

and something I saw, forget where, but not sure what it is, something custom, cobbled together?? Paul?? Wish I had a better picture!

Edited January 6, 2010 by Dieter3

[Kryptos]

According to Paul's book "In the Name of a Living God" the answer is "Yes"

Thanks Laurence. Dont worry, planning to plug that gap this month .

That really leaves one wondering why the docs are scarce. As I understand the RC items were presented based on donations and such. So perhaps not a document that carried as much weight to the recipient as an honourary award and therefore maybe treated with less care? However that does not fit in with my understanding of Japanese culture.

And thanks for the pics guys. Lovely items and paper there :beer: