Imperial Russia Help with Great-Grandfather's Uniform

[johnpahl]

Hi All,

I'm looking for a little assistance in identifying this uniform.

It belonged to my Great-Grandfather Wilhelm Pahl from Bessarabia. Family history is that he was a sergeant-major in a Cossack regiment and served five years in the Stavropol region.

http://s1010.photobucket.com/albums/...ust1406074.jpg

http://s1010.photobucket.com/albums/...ust1406076.jpg

If it is helpful, the trousers are a lighter blue breeches with a red stripe down the side and he would have served from 1893-1898.

Does anyone have any opinions to offer? This is the fourth forum I have tried with no success thus far!

Thanks,

John

PS I am having trouble uploading attachments, but will continue to try.

[johnpahl]

Files are too big and I am mostly computer incompetent, but you may be able to see them here as well:

http://warrelics.eu/forum/imperial-russian-white-army-pre-1920-history-uniforms/help-great-grandfathers-uniform-14770/

And here:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3739299#post3739299

Or here:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=14446.0

Any guidance or direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

John

[Hauptmann]

Hi John,

Hope you don't mind me taking the liberty of posting these for you. Sorry I can't give you any info but hoping some of our fellow members can.

Best of luck!

Dan

[johnpahl]

Thanks Hauptman Dan!

[Hauptmann]

Thanks Hauptman Dan!

Not a problem. Just hoping it helps in getting you some info. Looks like a nice uniform. And always great to have items from the service of family members.

Dan

[leshad]

It look like uniform of 45 dragoon Severski regiment in 1897-1907 years

[johnpahl]

Hi Leshad,

Thank you for the information. You are correct!

I also have an update from a gentleman at the Irkutsk Regional Museum. It is the uniform of a private of the 45th Seversky Dradoons Regiment, dated 1897-1904.

Thank you all for your help!

John

[censlenov]

Hi All,

I'm looking for a little assistance in identifying this uniform.

It belonged to my Great-Grandfather Wilhelm Pahl from Bessarabia. Family history is that he was a sergeant-major in a Cossack regiment and served five years in the Stavropol region.

http://s1010.photobu....ust1406074.jpg

http://s1010.photobu....ust1406076.jpg

If it is helpful, the trousers are a lighter blue breeches with a red stripe down the side and he would have served from 1893-1898.

Does anyone have any opinions to offer? This is the fourth forum I have tried with no success thus far!

Thanks,

John

PS I am having trouble uploading attachments, but will continue to try.

Hi John

Welcome to the forum. My Great Grandfather was a Bessarabian consript into the Czars army in WW1 after the war in 1928 he moved to South Eastern Alberta. I've always wanted to find out more about his service however i don't know if any such records survive.

Cheers

Chris

[johnpahl]

Hi Chris,

I emailed you as well. I don't know if there are service records still available, though that would be the icing on the cake! Maybe some of the forum members know.

Regardless, my Russian is very basic (ie just enough to travel on).

Thanks,

John

[Hauptmann]

I'm fairly certain a good number of records from Imperial times do indeed survive, buried away in some long forgotten part of the archives. The reason I say this is from my reading on the various forms of the NKVD, KGB, etc., from the beginning of the communist takeover they wanted to know who had worked for the Imperial system, who had served it in the military... especially officers to see who would be of possible value to the new regime and who had to be eliminated. I'm sure their agents went through such records with a fine tooth comb and kept them on hand in case they were ever needed.

The problem would be accessing such records. Like so much in Russia so many things like this are still considered top, top secret even after all this time. And I'm sure they don't want to dig up or air their dirty laundry as I'm sure so many of those whose records one would find were later killed off in purges, executed out of hand, worked to death in the camps, etc.

One can but hope that in the future at some point such records would indeed become available for research, both historical and genealogical. But I can't see that happening anytime really soon.

Of course I may be wrong in some or all of this. I'm sure we have members who are far more knowledgeable in this area than I. But I figured I'd plop in my two kopeks.

Dan

[Sergey W]

It look like uniform of 45 dragoon Severski regiment in 1897-1907 years

Look at picture of 45 dragoon Severski regiment (Savag 1894)

The color of shoulder straps is doubtful.

The raspberry pink shoulder straps was given to riflemans.

Edited January 12, 2010 by Sergey W

[johnpahl]

Hi Sergey,

Check out the uniform plate in this link: http://s1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/johnpahl/?action=view&current=UniformPlate.jpg

What do you think?

Thanks,

John

[Aceton]

Look at picture of 45 dragoon Severski regiment (Savag 1894)

The color of shoulder straps is doubtful.

The raspberry pink shoulder straps was given to riflemans.

The color plates of Sovage, as well as those later published by Shenk, were not a kind of document having a force of official reguilation. Its purpose was only to show general varieties of uniforms of different regiments, and their major distinctions. For example, I have seen a plenty of different shades of blue color, used on shoulder-boards and epaulettes of 2nd brigades of Infantry divisions. As well as the red color was not absolutely identical everywhere in the Army. Same refers to many other cases.