My first QSA - 4 clasps

[Noor]

Hello,

Here is my first QSA what I just got.

So, how easy is research pre WW1 period awards and from where to start?

Like I understand clasps are one of the most common ones.

[Noor]

Clasps

[Noor]

text on the rim

[Michael Johnson]

Nice one, Noor. On a quick search, I don't think he was a casualty. He didn't serve in the First World War with the Manchester Regiment.

Unfortunately a lot of W. Downs born 1860-1885 even in Manchester.

You need to get a researcher at the National Archives to find his service papers.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Hi - Noor. A nice QSA and the Manchester's are always a sought after unit. A few points that might be of interest with the bars.

There are three types - Province Bars - which show in which Provinces (or, States) the man served-in. Date Bars - Showing in which years the man served after the Death of Queen Victoria. Finally - and the most important, Battle Bars. These show the engagements that he fought in -they were strictly controlled and only the War Department could decide if an action warranted a bar - or, clasp.

All clasps are worn in the order of his service and they start at the bottom and work up-wards. You have one good Battle clasp on this medal - Wittebergen (White Mountain). Whilst not a big battle , it was important - part of the advance from Johannesburg to the North East. Look it up on Google.

[Brian Wolfe]

Cogratualtions on a fine QSA.

Common clasps on a QSA (?), regardless of that this is a great medal.

As time goes on the prices on what has been considered as common goes up making it harder and harder to find anything over two clasps.

Well done and thanks for sharing it.

Regards

Brian

[Noor]

Thanks guys for your kind words!

I will start from the beginning and read now more about the Boer war clasps in first place.

Like I understand by now;

- Mr. Downs wasn't eligible for KSA, although he had served at the front during 1901 (South Africa 1901 clasp)

- Battle clasp "Wittebergen" was for troops inside an area bounded by a line between Harrismith and Bethlehem, between Senekal and Clocolan, along the Basuto border and back to Harrismith during 01-29 July 1900

- He didn't took part any battles on Cape Colony or Natal because on the medal there is State clasp "Cape Colony"

- For a service in Transvaal during the period 24 May 1900 - 31 May 1902 he got State clasp "Transvaal" and wasn't entitled to other battle clasps - didn't took part any major battles?

[Noor]

One information piece from British Medals Forum;

Well the good news is that there is a set of papers for him on Ancestry in the pension series. Bad news is that he was also entitled to IGS 54 with Samana 1891 bar. You have to look a bit for the papers because they put his number down as 946 whereas the papers clearly show 746 and they list him as Wm Downs. He's also listed as William Gilmore(an alias) and there's a bit of desertion in there as well! He was recalled from the reserve for Boer War service. Over to you!

(Thank you to adb63)

[Noor]

Here is what I have at the moment. Have to get his other service cards as well from the National Archives and check was he entitled to something during the WW1 as well. Any help, ideas how to process with the research would be great!

The Queen's South Africa Medal

Text on the rim;

746 Pte W.Downs. Manch. Reg.

Name William Gilmore Downs

Born 1852 (???)

Next of Kind sister Agnes Dalton, West Gorton, Manchester

Occupation wagon repairer

Address 4 Napier, St. Grey, Manchester

Rank Private

Number 746

Unit Manchester Regiment

Service

- Enlisted in the 2nd Manchester’s as private on 28th January 1884

- Served at home 28th January 1884 – 1st January 1886

- Served in India 2nd January 1886 – 20^th February 1893

Awarded Indian General Service medal (1854) with the clasp “SAMANA 1891”,for operations in the Miranzai valley and Samana heights, Only 2 companies of the Manchester’s were involved in this operation.

- Re-engaged 9th January 1897

- Recalled to the service on 5th March 1900

Served in South Africa. Awarded Queen's South Africa Medal with 4 clasps;

* South Africa 1901

* Wittebergen

* Transvaal

* Cape Colony

- Discharged 8th January 1902

- Re-enlisted on 13th March 1915 as private 24058 4th Manchester’s Special Reserve

- Discharged on 6th June 1916 - physically unfit

- Rejoined 21st September 1917 at Finsbury as private 46724 Royal Defence Corps

- Discharged 24th January 1918 - physically unfit

[Noor]

QSA input

Edited February 17, 2010 by Noor

[Noor]

IGSM input

[Noor]

And this weekend I found nice mini as well - missing ribbon and some damages on the obverse but I like it

[Noor]

And close up of the mini

[Mervyn Mitton]

Noor - the damage to the mini is weird. Usually this type of rubbing is from certain types of associated medals - in this case mini's wouldn't be heavy enough. I suspect someone has put it on a buffing machine - perhaps to see if it is silver - which it isn't.

Perhaps someone else will have some ideas ?