Metropolitan Police Medal Rolls

[Nick]

Tom has asked me if I would start off a database here at GMIC which could record information relating to medal rolls for Police Officers who have served in the Metropolitan Police and received any type of officially recognised medal whilst in police service. I though this was an interesting concept, but it is a VAST undertaking which would never be completed as there must be hundreds of thousands of officers who have served with the Met Police, although granted only a fraction of those tens of thousands would have got medals

But Tom has provided me with some research he has done which is a start. However any ideas how this could be progressed by pooling research information ? I suggested we start with easy targets like identifying those called to the Colours during the Boer, Great War and WWII ?

[Michael Johnson]

Tom has asked me if I would start off a database here at GMIC which could record information relating to medal rolls for Police Officers who have served in the Metropolitan Police and received any type of officially recognised medal whilst in police service. I though this was an interesting concept, but it is a VAST undertaking which would never be completed as there must be hundreds of thousands of officers who have served with the Met Police, although granted only a fraction of those tens of thousands would have got medals

But Tom has provided me with some research he has done which is a start. However any ideas how this could be progressed by pooling research information ? I suggested we start with easy targets like identifying those called to the Colours during the Boer, Great War and WWII ?

Or went from the Services to the Met Police. I have seen two groups with Second Afghan Medals to the 2/7th Royal Fusiliers with Met Police Jubilees.

[Mervyn Mitton]

A good idea - but, I fear so big an undertaking would never be finished. In the 1st WW alone, probably half of the Force joined-up and this was why the War Reserve Specials were created. The other question - which must be asked - is there a real call for all of this information ? I have the greatest respect for Tom and will support him - but my thought would be a series of booklets - which could be amended as necessary. Why not published under the banner of the GMIC Forum ? I have thought for some time, that selected posts would sell well.

From time to time I check Google for refs. to my name and under Tipstaffs and Truncheons. I found recently - under, ' British Tipstaffs '

a whole seies of Posts ( four or five from top on 1st. page ) taken from this sub-forum - I think it ran into about 5 or, 6 pages of direct referrals. Wonderful for GMIC and new members, since this obviously is happening under all our different headings. Perhaps Google would be a good place to host the valuable reference material that Tom is suggesting.

[Brian Wolfe]

A very good idea indeed, thanks Nick. As Mervyn points out it could be an unending project, much like our collections; much to the chagrin of my wife.

I too have often thought that the material on the GMIC is an invaluable source of reference eclipsing most printed books currently on the market. Published booklettes? An interesting suggestion Mervyn; and we have so many, like yourself who have authored books within our membership.

Regards

Brian

[Tom King]

Probably an undertaking that would never be finished but I am happy to collate anything that anyone wanted to give me to make a start. My feeling is that this is such a specialist area of collecting that without a concerted effort things will be lost for ever. Unlike the military medals which has a much wider collecting field so thankfully the information is subject to ongoing research. I have thought of publication in the past but as i know from previous research efforts I do not have the time to go to kew and the like to gather the info and the research i have is incomplete.

Brian going to the services to the Police would also be an interesting aspect, but only could be collated by surviving medal groups I would have thought as it would be very hard to research on mass such information if at all.A start would be to open a topic for members to post any named groups with any already researched info to Metropolitan officers or really any other forces for that matter.

[Michael Johnson]

It could also be a means or reuniting some of those split groups - a large number of the Met. Police must have qualified for medals between 1887 and 1910.

[Guest pikemedals]

I've been collecting Metropolitan Police medals for the last 18 years. So every medal or group I've seen or come across either seen on a dealers list or auction catalogues I've kept the information on my own database. As I said before I have over 150 surnames printed off police orders, to my mistake it's properly a good few hundred surnames. Some surnames may only have one officer with that surname or like smith which has 250 pages printed off police orders. What I'm doing with the police orders is looking for police officers details who were entitled to medals and putting them on index cards. I have index tables for how many medals were issued to each division and ranks for 1887, 1897, 1897 clasp, 1902 for the Metropolitan police. I have the medal roll 1902 silver metropolitan police coronation medal e.g 1887 medal H Division; 465 was issued to PC's, 38 to sergeants, 17 to Inspectors, 1 Chief Inspector and 1 Superintendent. All my information I'm willing to share to anyone involved in this website. I would also like to try and reunite split medals from groups as I've got many missing, some are police medals and some are campaign medals from split police groups.

Regards Paul.

Edited March 1, 2010 by pikemedals

[Guest pikemedals]

i got the 1911 rejoined officers list from the met museum but only give officers names only. the old metropolitan police museum did have a rejoins list for the 1902.sorry to say i did not copy it paul

Edited March 2, 2010 by pikemedals

[Michael Johnson]

The Old Bailey Site gives a lot of Met Police officers appearing as witnesses - see http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28284&st=0&p=267256&hl=speak&fromsearch=1&#entry267256

[1314]

The Old Bailey Site gives a lot of Met Police officers appearing as witnesses - see http://gmic.co.uk/in...=1&#entry267256

" The Metropolitan Police - The Men and their Medals " by JH Kemp,contains appendices detailing the breakdown of awards of 1887,1897 and 1902 by Division,Rank,UB and CID.He states there is no detailed breakdown by Divison for the 19,783 medals issued for the 1911 coro.

[Michael Johnson]

He states there is no detailed breakdown by Divison for the 19,783 medals issued for the 1911 coro.

And sadly those are the ones which do not indicate the recipient's division.

[Odin Mk 3]

In fact the number of 1911 Coronation Medals issued to the Met Police appears to be even higher than the number quoted in my book and other reference books. I have recently acquired a copy of an ledger record for the naming costs for 1911 medals and this shows:

163 COD (presumably uniform part of CO Div) issued 1.12.11

113 PCO (Public Carriage Office) issued 5.12.11

161 CID issued 5.12.11

146 Receiver & Commr Office (civilians) issued 5.12.11

5621 A - H Divisions issued Jan 12

4570 J - N Divisions issued Feb 12

3797 P - T (part) Divisions issued Mar 12

2852 T (rest) - W Divisions issued Apr 12

3567 X - Dockyards issued May 12

Total 20990 Medals.

In addition 3 medals had to be re-engraved and 12 were originally held as unengraved, presumably as spares.

For interest the cost of naming was 5d per medal and the ribbon cost 1s 3d per yard (each medal being issued with about 9 inches of ribbon)

Edited March 5, 2010 by Odin Mk 3

[Tom King]

Interesting information thank you for sharing it with us. There has always been a lot of discrepancies surrounding the numbers issued for the 1887, 97, 1902 and 1911 with various publications giving some way off figures.

Interesting to note that they were rolled out over a period of months. I have seen an envelope full of unamed blank spares for the 1887/89 medals at the Met Museum and I picked up at auction an unissued/unamed 1902 in silver (for senior officers) so it shows that there were a few spares out there.

[Odin Mk 3]

I believe the numbers are fairly accurate in that page as it looks as if the engraver (Mr Gillett) was actually paid based on those numbers.

The page also contains another nugget of information - a breakdown of the numbers of 1911 medals issued to the various ambulance services (normally just quoted as a single total).

2755 St John Amb Brigade

310 St Andrews Amb Assn

130 Police Ambulance Service

Making a total of 3195 (a total of 2623 is the number normally given in reference books).

I have seen an un-named 1887 Met medal with a loose 1897 clasp before now (rejected as too expensive) but I do have a 1902 Met Coronation in bronze which has clearly never been named. There is also one plated silver 1902 going around which has been named to Mr F King (who was the Assistant Surveyor in the Receiver's Office) - I suspect a bronze spare medal that has been named and then silver plated.

[Guest pikemedals]

i got a few 1887 and 1902 unnamed medals .dixsons a few years a ago have a 1902 unnamed in silver and a 1887 medal unnamed disk only.going back to you book mr kemp it must me very handy to have.a member of gmic look up a few warrant numbers for me. and i find out at the n/a that one of my officers was dismissed for going on strike in 1919 pc j.o'hara this week.some years ago i got 5 1911 medals to the met for 18 pounds each from peter morris .1 was to a ps and the 4 was to pc's 1 was pc j.o'hara. the real gem out of the 5 was to pc h.tolmie warrant 90380. now am missing his 1915 trio and death plaque. he serve 7 years in the s.g befor he joined he met.i think he join in 1903 without me getting out his paperwork.he may of been in the boer war. there is some good finds out to have if you are lucky just in single medals alone. paul

[james_harvey]

Trying to reunite PC G Harvey with his 1897 and 1902 Medals and PC S White with his 1897 and 1911 medal.

 

Regards

 

James