buellmeister Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Gentlemen, I need your expertise on this one. My co-worker found this item in his yard here in New Hampshire about 40 years ago. I warned about possible detonation and he chuckled, "this this has been bounced off the ground thousands of times." Still I throw caution into the wind. This is a unique piece I'd date to the period of the Revolutionary War. What are your thoughts? Thank you for your interest. Regards, Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buellmeister Posted March 20, 2010 Author Share Posted March 20, 2010 Here is another picture showing the plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Must have had a fuse and with careful timing you could get it to explode over the heads of your target. What is the weight and the diameter ? Have you checked to see if the diameter matches any of the guns in use at that time ? An interesting item - it looks to be bronze from the colouration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 Hello Joe, A very nice looking item. It must have been polished somewhat though it seems to have a nice patina aquired through age. I am taking it that this is hollow from your comments regarding detonation. I have two cannon balls in my collection but they are solid and not nearly as nice looking as the one you have posted. I've been told that "back in the day" the army would fire, collect and refire the same ball over and over again during gunnery practise. I have no proof of this but I was told this took place. If that is the case, could your neighbour's property be situated in a former training ground? If so then the origins of the ball may be tied to the country whose artillery were training there. Just a thought. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buellmeister Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 Gents, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Been away for most of the day with work and sorts. I have discussed the possibilities of your findings with my co-worker and he states that as far as he can trace his Family's property, it has never been an artillery training area. The cannon ball was found under a cedar tree when his Dad was performing some excavation work. That is the only none history as to it coming into his possession. As far as weight and diameter, he'll have those figures for me on Monday. Thank you again Guys and I look forward to posting my findings and hearing your additional thoughts! Regards, Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buellmeister Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 Gents, Here are the stats... Diameter: 6 inches Weight: 8.5 lbs. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter monahan Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Hello Joe, I've been told that "back in the day" the army would fire, collect and refire the same ball over and over again during gunnery practise. I have no proof of this but I was told this took place. Brian Quite true, Brian. At the British capture of "Fort Shelby" [Prairie du Chien, Illinois] in August 1814, the US had a gunboat on the Mississippi River firing a three-pounder at the British attackers, who cheerfully fired back the balls collected and with rether more effect. Also, during the so called "Siege of Delhi} in the Indian Mutiny, the British troops who had invested about 10% of the perimeter of the city paid local natives to collect cannon balls, fired from inside Delhi by the rebels, for 'recycling'. Of course it helped that both sides were using identical cannon! 8.5 pounds sounds like maybe a 9 pound cannon or perhaps - for an explosive shell - a howitzer, which were calibrated in 'inches', not by ball weight, and so a '6 incher'. Bronze would be quite rare in a solid shot, I think, but perhaps not so for an explosive shell. I'll see what I can dig up on that. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Peter - Hi. What is puzzling me is the bronze - for a shrapnel shell cast iron would burst more easily and with more splinters. Better made cannons were made of brass and sometimes bronze - but shells ? I'm beginning to think this may have been for a mortar - the plug was put back after the fuse was lit to avoid drag on the shell and distortion in flight. Will be interesting to see if the British had any mortar ships in that area. The other possibility would be the carronades which were in use from the early 1800's - they fired a big shell at close range and were on the decks of warships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buellmeister Posted March 24, 2010 Author Share Posted March 24, 2010 Gentlemen, What baffles my co-worker is there isn't a body of water large enough to have boats with such cannons in the Southwestern part of NH... Maybe, it was hauled back to our area after a Naval conflict in another region? Interesting find for him that's for sure. Thank you again for your interest! Regards, Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter monahan Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Mervyn The bronze is a puzzle, I agree. I don't believe that the plug was replaced over lit fuses in 18-19th century shells. The plug was a wooden tube, cut off to a carefully calibrated length - which controlled when it exploded the shell - just before insertion. Putting the plug back would a) rob the smouldering fuse of oxygen and b) be REALLY high risk for the guy doing it. You didn't want to be still holding the bomb when the fuse burned down! I believe carronades used a 24 to 32 pounder ball but not shells, and fired on line of sight like other naval [and land] artillery bar mortars. The only naval vessels firng shell were the 'bomb ketches', which mounted large and very large mortars, so this shell seems small for them. A real puzzle! If I remember I'll ask on my War of 1812 sites to see if anyone has heard of bronze shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Peter - a few years ago we had a 68lb carronade shell brought-in. Dredged up from the Tugela River and from the Guard ship for the landings in the 1879 Zulu War. This had the lug on the side - to be replaced before fire. Two holes were in the top to screw it an and out with a special tool. People are always fascinated with old shell casings and it could have well been recovered from a far distant point - even brought back from overseas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buellmeister Posted March 25, 2010 Author Share Posted March 25, 2010 Gents, Thanks for your continued interest. Would more pictures help out with your assessment? Regards, Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter monahan Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Peter - a few years ago we had a 68lb carronade shell brought-in. Dredged up from the Tugela River and from the Guard ship for the landings in the 1879 Zulu War. This had the lug on the side - to be replaced before fire. Two holes were in the top to screw it an and out with a special tool. Mervyn I stand corrected. I had 'American Revolution' stuck in my head as the probable date, which is close enought to the period I do know a bit about to have me stick my neck out. And get it promptly whacked off! As the original poster says there are no navigable rivers near the find site - something else I missed first time round - a 'bring back' seems posiible / plausible. As you say, people are fascinated by artillery bits. Over here we occasionally get to see things which purport to be cannon balls which are in fact iron spheres from a 'rolling mill', a primitive mining device in which the balls were tumbkle in a drum of some sort with chunks or ore to break the ore up for easier smelting. Needless to say, they never have any markings on them, but then neither do cannon balls, so the only giveaway is the odd sizes they tend to be. Thanks for the correction - and another factoid for the mental files! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Peter, I was only saying about our 1879 ball. I don't think we have reached a conclusion yet - for the gun , the bronze of the ball or, for age ? I wonder if Helen would have any examples in the Pitt-Rivers Museum ? Have you ever seen a bronze cast ball ? The one thought I did have was that bronze would be heavier then iron - could it 'possibly' have anything to do with a siege weapon - to beak down masonry ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buellmeister Posted March 26, 2010 Author Share Posted March 26, 2010 Gentlemen, I certainly appreciate your continued conversation and am looking forward with anticipation to your findings! Regards, Joel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Hello, Sorry I didn't see this item earlier so thanks to Mervyn for bringing it to my attention - very intriguing! We don't tend to have much in the way of artillery at our Museum but in any case, I have never heard of or seen a bronze cannon ball or naval gun ball. I'm pretty sure American 6-pounder field guns of the 1770s would have fired solid iron balls. The fact that it's hollow suggests a stronger possibility of it being a mortar shell as others have suggested - maybe of the type used by the French at Yorktown? - or even an explosive carcass, although again, these tended to be of iron or even canvas and had more than one hole to let the flames out. My other thought was that it may not be anything to do with warfare at all and might be one of those gate-shutter weights of times past, the hole where the hook would have been?! Sorry not to be of more help but will be interesting to see if anyone gets to the bottom of this! Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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