Flaming grenade cockade

[Freiwillige]

Please help to identify these two photos of artillerymen (?). The strange thing is the flaming grenade cockade that is pinned instead of the Reichskokarde. As far as Vorläufige Reichswehr was formed only on March 6, 1919 it's not the Provisional Defense Force.

No.1. This portrait of EKII winner is dated January 26, 1919 on the back. The photo was made in the atelier of the Saxonian town Plauen.  

 

[Freiwillige]

No.2 This studio photo is dated January 14, 1919 and was made in Riesda (Saxony again!). Please note the same cockade and the absence of the shoulder straps.

[leigh kitchen]

Interesting, not of any help, but the grenade is very similar to the British "General Service" collar, shoulder title & "trade" & rank badge device worn by The Grenadier Guards, Fusiler regiments & the Royal Artillery & Royal Engineers - this one's in white metal as worn by pre 1908 Volunteer units as opposed to the usual brass.

Any chance that the grenade is a British badge scrounged for use post WWI?

Edited March 28, 2010 by leigh kitchen

[Chris Boonzaier]

My guess is that it is freikorps, reichs Kokarde removed as th ekaiser had done a runner...probably a Gunner in a freikorps ?

[Eric Stahlhut]

the 'waffenring der deutschen scwheren artillerie' vet's org used the grenade device...it can be seen on the barbarakreuz awards

Edited March 28, 2010 by Eric Stahlhut

[Freiwillige]

Thank you for replies and attention paid to my question!

Any idea where can I find a confirmation of the Freikorps version or the Veteran's association?

[Eric Stahlhut]

is it possible to zoom in and get a larger, clearer view of the device?

the awards i mentioned have the date '1923' on the grenade, and these pics are dated 1919, so the chances that the two may be related are kinda iffy--unless these are precursors to the official, later days or something

[Freiwillige]

Here you are, Eric. There's no "1923" mark on the flaming grenade though.

[Eric Stahlhut]

wow, an extremely close match to leigh's british badge. seems like the 'bottleneck' area is slightly wider on the german version, though

[Freiwillige]

wow, an extremely close match to leigh's british badge. seems like the 'bottleneck' area is slightly wider on the german version, though

You're absolutely right, they look similar except the size of the bottleneck area. Any ideas? I haven't found an answer anywhere... 

[Eric Stahlhut]

perhaps an insignia for a decomissioning team working with the 'allies'?? i dunno, germans had to scrap a lot of weaponry, including heavy artillery, during the postwar years