Romania Defense of The Motherland Question

[Stogieman]

Is there anyway to research a numbered Defense of The Motherland Order?

Thanks, Rick

[Stogieman]

anybody??? Numbered award... Romania?

[Anatoly13]

This one?

http://sammler.ru/index.php?act=gallery&CODE=picture&id=2800

[Stogieman]

Yes, that is the one I am asking about. This one has swords and is numbered:

[Corabia Alex]

Well.. by the looks of it, the stamping is a little too... thin, in my opinion.

[Corabia Alex]

I`ve been meaning to list this in the forum for a while now, but did not want to start a new topic :speechless:

[Corabia Alex]

So, I assume this is the full bar that we are talking about:

[Corabia Alex]

... and the front:

[Corabia Alex]

Detail 1 :

[Corabia Alex]

Detail 2:

[Corabia Alex]

Now I`ve asked the seller how does he know that this is a Romanian medal bar, and his answer was that " I bought it from Romania many years ago".

Even if that is true, this bar has medals from way to many nations to assume it belongs to a certain one...

Should I assume that he is right because the Romanian is the first one?!

Well... I`m no medal expert, but I am thinking of an "assembled" bar.

[Corabia Alex]

And his description:

<< SOVIET ROMANIA, CZECHOSLOVAKIA, HUNGARY MEDAL BAR ORDER

SOVIET ROMANIA, CZECHOSLOVAKIA, HUNGARY MEDAL BAR ORDER. THIS IS AN EXTREMELY RARE ORIGINAL EARLY ROMANIAN RPR MEDAL BAR FEATURING THE VERY RARE DEFENSE OF THE MOTHERLAND 3RD CLASS RPR. NUMBERED (# 194). MADE IN SILVER/GILT. LESS THAN 1,000 ISSUED! ALSO INCLUDED ON THE BAR IS THE 1953 2ND TYPE HUNGARIAN LABOR ORDER 2ND CLASS WITH RARE RIBBON DEVICE SIGNIFYING 2ND CLASS SET OF BREAST STAR AND BADGE. aLSO INCLUDED ARE 3 CZECHOSLOVAKIAN MEDALS AND ONE sOVIET ANNIVERSARY MEDAL.

VERY INTERESTING MEDAL BAR IN VERY NICE CONDITION.

THIS IS AN ORIGINAL MEDAL BAR NOT A RESTRIKE OR COPY. >>

Edited April 13, 2010 by Corabia Alex

[Stogieman]

Hello Alex, yes that is the bar, and the price was negotiated for less than he was asking. In my opinion, whether it is assembled, or not.... is irrelevent at this moment as in my opinion, the price paid is far less than the sum of the parts as individual items.

Now, having said that, the bar is now in hand and went to visit the scan-master. here are some far better images.

Again, what is unknown is if the bar is an assembly of parts, the bar of someone with rank or the second row of a bar to whomever. In my opinion, all three options are a still open possibilities. I will not be tearing it apart anytime soon.

Here's what we do know.

RPR Defense of the Motherland. Multi-Part base with serial number 194 (C stamped below) on the reverse.

It is not a "thin" stamping. In fact it is multiple pieces assembled into one medal. So, pre-1965 award.

Now the question becomes, what grade of the DoM is it? First Class was a screwback, so clearly not first.

There is no gilding on the swords, nor on the starburst... so? Is it a Third, or a Second Class?

What's with the swords? Other than Anatoly's linked example, I'm having a hard time finding any examples on the forum or net with swords. Nor can I find an image anywhere of an example with a serial number. Does anyone else have a serial numbered piece?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

With respects to the Hungarian Order of Merit, First Class (Klein Decoration).... other than a flake off of the enamel star where it's been bumping against the Soviet Jubilee Medal, it's flawless and exactly what it should be, so pre-1956 award.

The three Czech medals... well, there's nothing odd about that combination and with the RPR version of the DoM, a XX Year Soviet and XX year Czech Jubilee medals; eveeything seem to date all the pieces quite nicely into somewhere between 1949 and 1965.

[Stogieman]

Reverse of the bar:

[Stogieman]

Details of the DoM. Note the multiple pieces visible on the close up of the serial number.

[Anatoly13]

I think this bar is mix.But mix of not bad orders.

If this Romanian oficer has received DoM it necessarily should have other Romanian military medals.

Abt DoM - this is 3rd class. At first because only 3-rd class has ribbon ( 1 and 2 are breast stars ),and second - "C" - is hallmark of 3rd cl. ( "A "- 1st,"B"-2nd ).

Here you can see good pics of all 3 classes with types and variants that I know for the moment.I can post pics here if you want.

http://sammler.ru/index.php?act=Gallery&cat=150

Just click on pictures.

There are not DoM without swords.

And the last - hungarian Order of Merit - 2 nd class.

[Stogieman]

OK, my next question becomes:

What country used this type of mounting?

I don't see this as a Hungarian, Bulgarian or Soviet Mounting Bar.

I cannot comment on Romania, I have never seen any other examples of Romanian Bars from the Socialist period.

Is it Czech? This seems the next somewhat logical conclusion given three Czech medals.

If it was Czech, what would the most likely first two, or three pieces have been?

In any event, I am still very pleased with my purchase as the Romanian Order & Hungarian Order are extremely nice pieces on their own!

[Corabia Alex]

Wow ! Now that is a very fine list of Romanian communist awards. Thank you Anatoy !

And now for the comfort of those who do not know Russian, such as myself, here is the translated page:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsammler.ru%2Findex.php%3Fact%3DGallery%26cat%3D150

[Anatoly13]

I find it difficult to answer a question of the state accessory of this bar. It would be more logical to move the Czech awards forward as earlier. Then it is possible to assume bar to Czechoslovakia.

But all set of awards are strange for me - why so high hungarian order?There is soviet medal XX years so he should be member and then veteran of war.Where are other awards?

Well and the last: similar sets of foreign awards often meet at the Soviet generals of those years,but soviet medal...

May be general from aliens...

"In any event, I am still very pleased with my purchase as the Romanian Order & Hungarian Order are extremely nice pieces on their own!"

I agree!

[Stogieman]

Back to my original qhestion....

Any way to research a numbered Romanian award?

Thanks! Rick

[Corabia Alex]

While I can not provide any information for the question, I do have some nice pictures :jumping:

[Corabia Alex]

Please notice this Order was awarded to a woman, that was retired ! ("pensionara" = retired / with pension ).

[Corabia Alex]

The order itself, a little enamel chipping on the top ray.

[Corabia Alex]

A beautiful closeup; I think this could make a nice wallpaper

[Corabia Alex]

And the back: here is the number. Too bad about the pin.. at least it's easy to replace

Edited April 22, 2010 by Corabia Alex