Chris Boonzaier Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 Found courtesy of Stogieman.OK, its not unusual as such, but it makes you do a double take.....
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 29, 2005 Author Posted December 29, 2005 Very nice, EARLY EK1.Maybe Rick can find the Officer?
Christophe Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 Interesting, seems totally hand-written... But the EK seems "curious" .Cheers.Ch.
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 29, 2005 Author Posted December 29, 2005 Hi,only the part in the second scan is hand written. The HK is just for size comparrison ;-)
Christophe Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 Oh, I see . Nice poster !!! Ch.PS : And BTW what's so unsusual ?
Josef Rietveld Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 (edited) Do the helmets shown on the 'vorl?ufige besitzeugnis' fit to the date august 1915? I don't know very much abbout imperial headgear, but from my point of view these helmets look more like 1916/17. the same with the stielhandgranate. The pictures soldiers show Sturmtrupp equipment. When were the first german stormtroops formed in WWI?regardshaynau Edited December 29, 2005 by haynau
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 29, 2005 Author Posted December 29, 2005 Very observant Haynau ! Right on the button !!!Lets hear more........
Josef Rietveld Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 Very observant Haynau ! Right on the button !!!Lets hear more........Service is our sucess haynau
Guest Rick Research Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 on the steel helmets not matching the 1915 date!!(Wups, had trouble at first reading obscured rank-- never mind that part!)iNice that they PRINTED the Leutn. recipient's name WITH the document, isn't it? Saved all that filling in details by hand, huh? I also like the DIVISIONAL issue document ISSUED by a regimental commander. Where's this stuff coming from Chris?
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 29, 2005 Author Posted December 29, 2005 Not so fast... the document is good. The name, rank etc (all of what is in the second pic) is entered by hand not printed.Unusual as it might seem, documents with a division printed on them are not that uncomman signed and stamped at regimental level. In fact, this can even be found at Krps level..but, lets hear some more discussion :-)
Stogieman Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 I'm just happy that Chris was able to get this one. Very special, but I will not scarf his thunder!
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 29, 2005 Author Posted December 29, 2005 By the way, to be fair... the artist signed the drawing 1917.....
Christophe Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 I knew that!!! The question is : why wait for 1917 to deliver such a doc dated 1915 ? Ch.
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 29, 2005 Author Posted December 29, 2005 I knew that!!! The question is : why wait for 1917 to deliver such a doc dated 1915 ? Ch.There is a big difference between WW1 and WW2 award system.A WW2 award was approved and accompanied by a doc signed by the Gen. who awarded it. Early on (1940 I think) all other kinds of award docs for the EK were forbidden.In WW1 it was different, the awards were approved by the awarding gen, but the docs were often issued at regt or Batln level (sometimes lower!).a lost doc in WW2 for an EK got an official Zweitschrift, in WW1 the company clerk could whip it out. I have one group where the guy had three Besizzeugnis for the EK2.Important is to distinguish between the dates on the doc.Some have just date of the award (as above) , some have the date of the award AND date of signature, some have the date of the signature, but not of the award.I have a group where the guy go the EK1, date of award and signature were a few days apart in 1917, then a few days LATER he got the Besitzzeugnis for his EK2... which had been awarded in 1914. I assume it was only aftr he got his EK1 that he realised "Hey... i didnt get an EK2 doc !!!!"it could be that in 1915 the Lt. got a crappy office clerk doc and when these came out he got them to issue him a nice one. as said before, there is no real limit as to how many docs a guy could have.BestChrid
Christophe Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 Chris,Thanks for the details. So many things to learn here and there... Cheers.Ch.
Guest Rick Research Posted December 29, 2005 Posted December 29, 2005 This WILL count towards your '06 "Naughty" List, you know!
Chris Boonzaier Posted December 29, 2005 Author Posted December 29, 2005 Also very interesting to note... the docs were obviously printed for the units of the Division... the line "Major u. Regiments Kommandeur" is printed... so how did they know if the Regimental commandeur was a Major or oberst? quite simple, the "u. Regiments Kommandeur" is the same printing as the rest, the "Major" was added.So the Division had docs done for all its units, to be filled out at regt. level.
Chris Boonzaier Posted April 22, 2011 Author Posted April 22, 2011 Does anyone by chance have the history of the Regt? Thanks Chris
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