Hungary Hungarian Security

[Gordon Craig]

cimbineus

Thanks for filling in the gaps in our knowledge about the Industrial Facilities’ Guard. Would you please post their name in Hungarian for me please. Do you have any information on the rank structure of the Industrial Facilitiies Guard? Perhaps a picture of their rank insignia? Am I correct that caps with gold cords would have been worn by senior officers in this organization?

Regards,

Gordon

Edited February 2, 2012 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

Some pictures of the tunic of the Industrial Facilities’ Guard.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

A shoulder board showing the rank insignia. I have no reference for ranks so I do not know what the actual rank is. The stars are unusual for Hungarian insignia.

[Gordon Craig]

A close up view of the rank insignia.

[Gordon Craig]

The collar insignia.

[Gordon Craig]

The tunic buttons.

[Gordon Craig]

Label inside left breast giving size and cleaning instructions.

[Gordon Craig]

Manufacturers label inside the right breast.

[GC*]

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for these very valued informations.

Gordon, actually looking at the details of my badge and at the one you posted I came to the conclusion that probably they are of the same type. All the elements coincide: the two crossed submachine guns PPSH-41, the two little hungarian flagsright over their barrels, the larger "rainbow-style" hungarian flag right under the star and partially on the light-blue color centre, the little white qsquares, then enclosed by the green leaves wreath.

I would say that the particular colour of the hat badge you posted might be the result of age (I am asserting that due to the fact that the little white squares - on this hat badge nearly invisible - and the white stripe of the hungarian glag look quite gold as well, a thing that makes me think that originally the badge probably looked exactly as mine).

Moreover Gordon, thanks for the detailed pictures of the uniform.

Finally, combineus, thanks for having provided us an historical background for this before quite unknown type of units.

Regards,

GC*

[GC*]

Good afternoon gentlemen,

I recently bought this hungarian piece as part of a bigger lot.

My hope was to have bought a cockade, but I am honestly not very sure that this badge is actually a hat badge - I could not see the reverse and assumed there would have been some prongs there, or at least their remains, but what I found there when I received the piece was quite unexpected.

Your comments on this issue would be much appreciated.

Thank you

GC*

[Gordon Craig]

GC,

I suspect that this item was attached to the cover of a book of some kind. This emblem is often found stamped on the cover of military manuals, regulations etc.

I have a similar device, but for the Soviet Union, which I know came from the cover of a book.

Regards,

Gordon

[GC*]

Thank you very much Gordo for your reply.

Very interesting, I'll try to find some pictures of the type of book at issue. The badge did not actually look like a cockade at all.

Regards,

GC

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

Picked this one up on Saturday 9th November 2013 in Deva,

at the Collectors Fair.

I hope the ribbon is the right one for this award?

Kevin in Deva.

[Greg Collins]

Kevin,

The ribbon isn't correct for the medal, and the medal could have one of three different ribbons attached to it: dark blue with red-white-green center stripe (Public Security), green with red-white-green (very thin white stripe on either side to separate it from the green background) center stripe (Border Guard) and, finally, red with a broad blue stripe flanked on either side by a thin white stripe (AVH). That's right, the only difference is the ribbon, the medals are all the same. This image of all three bronze grades is built from images in my Hungarian gallery:

Best,

Greg

Edited November 12, 2013 by Greg Collins

[Kev in Deva]

Many thanks for the info Greg, must be on the look out for a correct ribbon in Brasov on the 23rd November 2013.

[Philip.S]

Hello,

In a hopefully not in vain attempt to resurrect this wonderful thread 😆, here is a Kivalo Karhatalmi Szolgalatert badge in a case I picked up a few months ago. Unlike the very first post in this thread, this one has not just the badge "holder", but also the miniature "holder", and is in better condition, so I presume it is of later manufacture

 

Philip.S

[Gordon Craig]

Phillip S,

Very nice set of badges.  I can not say much about this set as all of my reference books are in storage since we moved into a condo.  It's too bad that the first badge posted doesn't show what the back looked like.  There is another type of case with the position of the large and small badges reversed.  The back of these badges is the same as the one that you posted.

Regards,

Gordon

 

 

[Philip.S]

Gordon Craig, 

Very nice badge to you as well!

I notice a metal latch on your case....mine doesn't have that, was that addition just an early case design, or was it for officers etc?

Thank you,

Philip.S

39 minutes ago, Gordon Craig said:

I can not say much about this set as all of my reference books are in storage since we moved into a condo

A little , perhaps, but i cant help but notice the 2 words "reference books", may I inquire as to the names of these? I can't find any myself!

 

Again, Thank you

Philip.S

[Gordon Craig]

Philip,

For me reference books, one is written by Hunyadi and the other by Cimbinius.  Plus I have others that I can not name off hand as I said above they are in storage and not accessible.  They would probably not be available in North America anyway.  An inexpensive reference in vatera  https://www.vatera.hu/gyujtemeny/militaria/index-c2911.html A site that I have mentioned to you before.  It is easily translated while you are browsing it.

Regards,

Gordon

Philip,

Just noticed that I answered two months after you posted your questions.  Sorry about that.  Re the latch.  Don't know for for sure but the deletion of the latch could be related to a shortage of funds.  You can chart this sort of thing through all of the countries under Soviet influence through the 60s, 70, and 80s.  Cases became cheaper to make as did badges and medals.

Regards,

Gordon

 

[Philip.S]

Gordon Craig,

 

Thank you for your answer, Thank you for the link, though I believe I have mentioned in another thread that they very rarely ship anywhere outside of Hungary, which is...well...a problem.

 

Its interesting how the cases do change though, even for seemingly no reason, eg, your case has the miniature at the bottom, whereas mine has it on the top. Something like the latch, it makes sense that it was stopped due to budget, but then one asks oneself, but why only some awards? for example, the early Sztahanovista Bakelite cases, to my knowledge they have no latch, yet the case is so well adorned. It well and truly puzzles me!

 

Many thanks,

 

Philip.S

[Gordon Craig]

Philip,

Why cases change is anyone guess.  As for Vatera, I wasn't suggesting that you buy there just that it was a good reference since there are not many books on the era you are interested in.

Regards,

Gordon