IrishGunner Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 I should remember where I got this Bundeswehr Verbandsabzeichen, but I don't. I know it's Bavarian related; even similar to a Polizei Anhaenger for Oberbayern - but I thought I got this from a Bundeswehr officer some time ago. I just can't remember when or why. And not sure why I'd have a Polizei patch. Or maybe I was in jail in Bavaria and just can't remember that either. Anyone have a clue as to which unit this patch represents? I can't find it online at all.
IrishGunner Posted January 15, 2011 Author Posted January 15, 2011 No Bundeswehr experts out there? Hardy? :unsure:
GRA Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 I should remember where I got this Bundeswehr Verbandsabzeichen, but I don't. I know it's Bavarian related; even similar to a Polizei Anhaenger for Oberbayern - but I thought I got this from a Bundeswehr officer some time ago. I just can't remember when or why. And not sure why I'd have a Polizei patch. Or maybe I was in jail in Bavaria and just can't remember that either. Anyone have a clue as to which unit this patch represents? I can't find it online at all. Hello IrishGunner! I feel quite certain that it isn't a Bundeswehr brigade patch, and probably not a battalion patch either (I may of course be wrong now - in that case I stand corrected), it just doesn't "feel right". Being curious, I went to some dubious sources - Wikipedia - to see what would pop up... The Bavarian coat of arms (Oberbayern, right?): "The Blue Panther: At the dexter base, argent, a panther rampant azure, armed Or and langued gules. This represents the regions of Lower and Upper Bavaria." Looking familiar? The Police clue gives the following: Bayerisches Staatsministerium des Innern Polizeipräsidium Oberbayern (Suddenly something went wrong...) Coat of arms of Bavaria "In the eleventh century the counts of Kraiburg, a branch of the counts of Sponheim of Rheinish Hesse, acquired land in Upper and Lower Bavaria. In 1259, after the death of the last male member of the family, the shire was sold to the dukes of Bavaria. The coat of arms of the family was the "Lion of Sponheim", although the charge was no lion but a "panthier" (pronounced French), a mixture of a dragon and a lion. Nowadays, the fire-spitting panthier/panther is the Coat of Arms of the city of Ingolstadt. The coat of arms created for the Kingdom of Bavaria in 1835 included the 'lion'." You haven't been trading patches in Ingolstadt by any chance, have you? It's close, but no cigar... /Jonas
IrishGunner Posted January 16, 2011 Author Posted January 16, 2011 Jonas, there definitely is a connection to the Oberbayern Polizei; I just am not sure why I would have come in possession of a police patch. Guess it would help if I could remember where the heck I got the thing. Oh, well...:speechless:
Laurence Strong Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Here is a Oberbayern Police Pocket Badge, looks very similar to me
Naxos Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Anyone have a clue as to which unit this patch represents? I can't find it online at all. Fantasy patch IMO
Gordon Craig Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 IrishGunner, Here are some pictures from the Bavarian Police site. First the official arm shield of the Bavarian Police and second a picture of a police officer wearing what appears to be a different arm shield. I have never seen this particular badge before and would like to see a picture of the back of the badge please. Regards, Gordon
IrishGunner Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Gordon; reverse of the patch. It's a velcro attachment and includes the piece to sew on one's sleeve. The left side id the patch itself and the right is the part for the sleeve. It's this velcro attachment that leads me to believe this is an official uniform patch (vice a fantasy piece). I am almost certain I received this from one of two Bundeswehr officers I've known - both from Bavaria; but can't remember exactly when, where or why.
IrishGunner Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Well, if wikipedia is to be believed; I've found it! Verteidigungsbezirkskommandos 65 - vicinity of Munich. Part of the territorial forces. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrbereichskommando
IrishGunner Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Okay, here is a photo of a BW soldier wearing the patch! And now I'm pretty sure which officer gave me this patch!
Naxos Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Fantasy patch IMO I stand corrected! Sorry, it shows how out of touch I'm. " You're out of touch...." (remember, Hall and Oates)
GRA Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Hello IrishGunner! Well, at least I was partially right, no brigade or battalion patch! I have a bunch of patches myself that I have vague to no ideas at all what they may represent, however my Bundeswehr patches are mostly embroidered with unit designations down to companies, or from larger units known to Wikipedia! Maybe we should start a thread together? /Jonas Edited January 18, 2011 by GRA
IrishGunner Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 I stand corrected! Sorry, it shows how out of touch I'm. " You're out of touch...." (remember, Hall and Oates) Nah... just shows that we can't know everything. If it weren't for the velcro, I would've thought more along the fantasy lines too.
IrishGunner Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Hello IrishGunner! Well, at least I was partially right, no brigade or battalion patch! I have a bunch of patches myself that I have vague to no ideas at all what they may represent, however my Bundeswehr patches are mostly embroidered with unit designations down to companies, or from larger units known to Wikipedia! Maybe we should start a thread together? /Jonas My contribution would be very short - just that one patch! And a couple pocket badges - one for the Fuehringsakademie and one for the General Staff. That's about it for my Bundeswehr insignia. Now I do have a Slovenia patch I'm pondering what it might be... :speechless:
GRA Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) My contribution would be very short - just that one patch! And a couple pocket badges - one for the Fuehringsakademie and one for the General Staff. That's about it for my Bundeswehr insignia. Now I do have a Slovenia patch I'm pondering what it might be... Oh, Slovenia would do just fine! I can contribute with patches from equally exotic locations like Sweden (which I really ought to know what they represent, but I don't...), Czech Republic and from different places East of Poland and West of Vladivostok... Next stop the Lounge? /Jonas Edited January 18, 2011 by GRA
Gordon Craig Posted January 19, 2011 Posted January 19, 2011 Gordon; reverse of the patch. It's a velcro attachment and includes the piece to sew on one's sleeve. The left side id the patch itself and the right is the part for the sleeve. It's this velcro attachment that leads me to believe this is an official uniform patch (vice a fantasy piece). I am almost certain I received this from one of two Bundeswehr officers I've known - both from Bavaria; but can't remember exactly when, where or why. Irishgunner, Glad to see that you found it. When Verbandabzeichen were first introduced in the early 60s they were to be worn only on the service dress uniform. The design parameter were strictly controlled and a divisional or brigade patch had to be approved by the Inspector General. There were only approximately 133 Verbandabzeichen approved for wear on the service dress and a lot of those units have ben disbanded. Battalion patches followed similar heraldic requirements but only needed the approval of the Korps commander but often only the Divisional commanders approval was required. When you got down to the Territorial Forces things loosened up quite a bit. Since the Territorial Forces have been disbanded a lot of these ad hoc badges are no longer worn. Once the IVAs started to be approved the whole thing went off the rails. Units started producing their IVA designs as subdued patches to wear on their field and combat uniforms. Then they started to wear the bright coloured ones on their field uniforms and combat clothing. The estimate of the number of IVAs that have been worn over the years is in excess of 10,000 so who knows how many arm badges were produced and worn. Regards, Gordon
Watchdog Posted October 29, 2011 Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) And the policeman. An interesting thread. Having spent some 14 years serving in Germany I did have a bit of a digression from my main interests and found myself seeking out a small collection of modern German Polizei and BW stuff. I think I am right that Gordons pic is not a Bavarian Polizist but one from Hamburg (the arm badge has the Hamburg Landeswappen of a white castle on red ground as opposed to the Bavarian blue and white harlequin design) at the opposite end of the country and he is in the "pre-federal" uniform with the US style "three penny bit" cap unlike the green ensemble worn today. Regards Edited October 29, 2011 by Watchdog
Gordon Craig Posted October 30, 2011 Posted October 30, 2011 An interesting thread. Having spent some 14 years serving in Germany I did have a bit of a digression from my main interests and found myself seeking out a small collection of modern German Polizei and BW stuff. I think I am right that Gordons pic is not a Bavarian Polizist but one from Hamburg (the arm badge has the Hamburg Landeswappen of a white castle on red ground as opposed to the Bavarian blue and white harlequin design) at the opposite end of the country and he is in the "pre-federal" uniform with the US style "three penny bit" cap unlike the green ensemble worn today. Regards Watchdog, You are probably correct about the patch. I didn't say the policeman in the blue uniform was from Bavaria. I said he was wearing a different patch from the Bavarian one. Unfortunately, you are not about the uniform. The blue uniform pictured is the one adopted after the green uniform and in use today. Regards, Gordon
Watchdog Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 Watchdog, You are probably correct about the patch. I didn't say the policeman in the blue uniform was from Bavaria. I said he was wearing a different patch from the Bavarian one. Unfortunately, you are not about the uniform. The blue uniform pictured is the one adopted after the green uniform and in use today. Regards, Gordon Thanks Gordon, I stand corrected! A closer look at the pic shows it is much more recent than the early uniform period I was talking about when blue was worn in the then British Zone. I should have mentioned that I am a militaria collector rather than a police specialist and that my brief interest in police items was born of a professional connection. I left Germany some 12 years ago and sadly have not had the chance to return so far therefore I did not know of the uniform change. However, having checked with my german friends it seems that Hamburg (in the pic) and the Bundespolizei (Federal as opposed to State Police) were the first and quickest to change from the 1972 patt Moss Green / Beige uniform to the 2004 patt Steel Blue. Many of the other states are still in the process of change and are not expected to complete this until the end of 2012. Two states Bayern or Bavaria (home of the badge at the top of this thread) and Saarland do not propose to change and will retain the 1972 Moss Green / Beige uniform that I referred to. I suppose this is the risk with a "live" subject rather than an historical one. Unless one has "eyeball" on the target it is always possible to miss something! Thanks again for the pointer. Regards
Gordon Craig Posted November 4, 2011 Posted November 4, 2011 Watchdog, It is indeed interesting to watch the different states response to the new blue uniforms. I would have thought that all of the states would have been eager to go back to the traditional blue German police uniform. However, cost may be a factor here. I know that it was a major concern in Berlin of where to find the funds needed to convert to the new uniforms. I will continue to watch with interest where these new uniforms take them. Regards, Gordon
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