German versus Iraqi made shoulderboards

[bmsm]

I am posting three examples of Iraqi Rank shoulderboards one which is made of nylon with the Staff College Red Stripe and German made (information from my friend in Iraq). Some shoulder boards are known to be German Made. Notice the leather strip sewn on the inside bottom.

The other two were made by the Iraqi Official Military sewing Factory (also from my friend in Iraq). Notice the quality difference between the two Iraqi made SB's.

I have had some members say that the Iraqi Made shoulderboards with one star and eagle looks like it is German made. My question is where did the "German Made" information begin? Is it because the finer quality shoulderboards was automatically given the "German Made" name or is there some proof rather than "some one said that someone said" they are German Made?

Is the only difference between German and Iraqi the leather sewn in the inside or is that just to give strength to the nylon made shoulderboards?

Bob

[Guest IMHF]

Bob

Very nice examples of the 3 types you have posted, most of Iraq’s Shoulder boards now are being made in country by tailors who have the skills to make them look manufactured. You can see the difference between the well stitched ranks that were manufactured in Germany to the ones made in country.

- The top left set do you have a year of manufacture, they look 1969-72 era with a water proof material for combat.

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

As a collector of military relics, any collector would tell you that he would want the manufactured issue of a rank set and not an in country copy made by a tailor. Today you have to know the differences in quality of the rank sets. Saddam Hussein had his rank set manufactured by a men’s clothing store you can read about his personal tailor on the web. The quality of Saddam Hussein’s Rank set looks better then the German manufactured sets. So in this area of collecting for the Iraqi Officer rank shoulder boards you have to know what you are looking for.

-There are a lot of cheap imitations out there that were manufactured in 2004 for AAFES to sale. They were in a plastic with 8-12 ranks clipped to a piece of cardboard. They were made as souvenirs to be bought by soldiers or civilians as gifts. Today you can see tons of these ranks being sold as separate entities.

Thank you

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

There is a very wealthy collector in Iraq named Bassem, who has a collection of brochures with images of Iraq’s Military suppliers. In the publication is tons of images and information, from the companies who were offering the military insignias and Rank Sets most of the items were manufactured in England and in Germany. I want so bad to get some scans of the Brochure but he never had the time to do it for me. I offered him $500-$700.00 for the Brochures but he wanted to keep them for his collection.

-The brochure reminded me of the Ballantine Book NAZI REGALIA the pages were laid out like the pages from the book and had the names and information of all the items being offered to the buyers. You can say that the book was a catalog of all the Iraqi Military Insignia and uniforms during the 1980’s.

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

This beautiful set here is from a private collector, a friend of the person who wore them. They belonged to General Adnan Khairallah Talfah before he passed away in 1989.

-Very nicely detailed stars and Nessier Eagle for the Iraq Republic.

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

Here is a image photo of General Adnan Khairallah Talfah in uniform.

Lorenzo

[bullseye]

Lorenzo could you post images of the 2004 aafes sale items, I'd really like to see a comparison.

CHris

As a collector of military relics, any collector would tell you that he would want the manufactured issue of a rank set and not an in country copy made by a tailor. Today you have to know the differences in quality of the rank sets. Saddam Hussein had his rank set manufactured by a men's clothing store you can read about his personal tailor on the web. The quality of Saddam Hussein's Rank set looks better then the German manufactured sets. So in this area of collecting for the Iraqi Officer rank shoulder boards you have to know what you are looking for.

-There are a lot of cheap imitations out there that were manufactured in 2004 for AAFES to sale. They were in a plastic with 8-12 ranks clipped to a piece of cardboard. They were made as souvenirs to be bought by soldiers or civilians as gifts. Today you can see tons of these ranks being sold as separate entities.

Thank you

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

Lorenzo could you post images of the 2004 aafes sale items, I'd really like to see a comparison.

CHris

They look like this group right here very poor quality.

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

Here is a very cheap looking rank board.

Lorenzo

[bullseye]

Thanks very much Lorenzo!

Chris

[Paul R]

Here is a very cheap looking rank board.

Lorenzo

That looks like a Trident Militaria board.

[2xvetran]

They look like this group right here very poor quality.

Lorenzo

Lorenzo,

I would have to disagree with you on some of these. The Second Lieutenant (top left), notice the double stitching across the top and bottom of the board, also the way the center of the star is "staked" by stitching. This is very good quality and certainly a good pair of ranks. The single pair in your next post, most definetly bad. As Paul said, looks like Tridents. Scott.

[bmsm]

Lorenzo,

Is the Staff College Stripe on the shoulderboards in post # 8 a velvety material or a coarse material?

Bob

[bullseye]

So how does the eagle in Hussein era differ from present issue Iraq army?

Chris

[Paul R]

So how does the eagle in Hussein era differ from present issue Iraq army?

Chris

I would like to know this too.

[Guest IMHF]

I would like to know this too.

The only thing that I look at when purchasing Ranks is why was it made.

-Was it made 2003-04 for the Gift Shop?

-Was it manufactured or tailored for the Iraqi Service Officer?

We all know that most of the 3 Ministry Ranks are Fake, Paul is the only one that I know of who has an original.

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

The only thing that I look at when purchasing Ranks is why was it made.

-Was it made 2003-04 for the Gift Shop?

-Was it manufactured or tailored for the Iraqi Service Officer?

We all know that most of the 3 Ministry Ranks are Fake, Paul is the only one that I know of who has an original.

Lorenzo

The only one who, I know has an original unused Rank set of Saddam Hussein is Trident Militaria. Two uniforms that were specially made for Saddam Hussein were never picked up. They ended up in Robert’s hands for around $5,000 each, one of them sold for 20,000.00 a few years ago he has one more left. All the other Saddam Hussein Ranks you see out there are FAKES!

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

Here is a set of CPT Shoulder ranks from my collection.

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

Reverse stitch of the Rank set

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

Iraqi 2nd Lt Rank set from my collection

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

Reverse Stiched

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

LIWA rank set from my collection

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

Reverse:

Lorenzo

[2xvetran]

We could all post rank slides all day long, that doesn't answer the question that Bob asked. Who decided that certain ranks were German made? Who in Germany made them and what were the characteristics or styles that they made? What period were they made in? These are the things we need to nail down and try to get out for future collectors.

As for anything from Trident Military being original, all I would say is let the buyer beware. A Uniform made for Saddam Hussein and never picked up by him, is no more attributable than a copy on E-bay. If he never picked it up and never used it, then it was never his. Unless you subscribe to the line of thought that everything belonged to the dictator. Then that means I have a ton of Saddam's uniforms.

So lets all try to figure out what ranks, if any, are German made and who made them and during what years. No speculation, or guesswork, just cold hard researched facts. Scott.

[Guest IMHF]

We could all post rank slides all day long, that doesn't answer the question that Bob asked. Who decided that certain ranks were German made? Who in Germany made them and what were the characteristics or styles that they made? What period were they made in? These are the things we need to nail down and try to get out for future collectors.

As for anything from Trident Military being original, all I would say is let the buyer beware. A Uniform made for Saddam Hussein and never picked up by him, is no more attributable than a copy on E-bay. If he never picked it up and never used it, then it was never his. Unless you subscribe to the line of thought that everything belonged to the dictator. Then that means I have a ton of Saddam's uniforms.

So lets all try to figure out what ranks, if any, are German made and who made them and during what years. No speculation, or guesswork, just cold hard researched facts. Scott.

Scott

I wish I could help; I have many contacts in Iraq even the well known Hider Saffar that can’t tell me the information. I have over 200 different types of rank sets that I have acquired through my years of working with the Iraqi Army. I have a few Gold stitched sets, I even have a set an Iraqi soldier's Wife made for him. As Ranks are still being made by tailors in Iraq with so many Cammo types it will be impossible to have a full line list of Year and manufacturer.

-We hope to find out the years of the types Bob has displayed on the first post.

Lorenzo