France Arnold Schwarzenegger receives French honor

[JPL]

Arnold Schwarzenegger has received France's Legion of Honor, the country's most prestigious national decoration. The former California governor was given the prize at a special ceremony held in Cannes, where he also had his hands cast in cement to later be displayed on the city's Walk of Fame. Read the complete article and see the video of the presentation here: http://www.digitalspy.ca/celebrity/news/a313142/arnold-schwarzenegger-receives-french-honor.html

Jean-Paul

[PKeating]

Not sure how prestigious it is now, given that any 'businessman' can get himself appointed Chévalier de la Légion d'Honneur by getting a couple of members to second him and by sending "une valise" to the right people. I'd say that nomination to the Ordre des Arts & Lettres is probably more meaningful nowadays. Membership of that order has to be earned whereas the LdH is pretty much for sale nowadays, as long as the establishment sees you as useful. And when I see a veteran with the ribbons of the Croix de la Valeur Militaire, Croix de Guerre or Médaille Militaire (in the case of former NCOs) on their jackets, it means far more than that red ribbon. Unless one can be sure that the person earned it by doing something very special. Otherwise, it's just a badge for corrupt businessmen. In Arnie's case, good luck to him but, actually, what has he done for France, apart from running buying an occasional drink in Cannes after the courtesy bar runs dry?

PK

Edited April 8, 2011 by PKeating

[Chris Boonzaier]

Well, if you consider the OBE/MBE thing.... I think the UK has more or less the same thing going.... tons of medals to civilians and the military shakes its head..

Arnie as Gov of California was waaaay beter than we expected... so maybe it is not thaaaaaaat bad to give him this... god knows, there are people who deserve it less that have it.

[Harvey]

In the meantime, I'm trying to help my friend get his father recognized with the LdH for his service to France during WWII - service for which he was awarded both a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart.

[Chris Boonzaier]

In the meantime, I'm trying to help my friend get his father recognized with the LdH for his service to France during WWII - service for which he was awarded both a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart.

A silly question, but does he qualify for a LdH? If I remember correctly, a few years ago it was the remaining WW1 vets that got the LdH.

Best

Chris

[Harvey]

Yeah, I read about it awhile back. WWII vets who can prove that they fought on French soil are eligible to apply; awards for valor and/or receipt of a Purple Heart apparently help your case.

Here's a link to one story:

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/03/04/3450035/sacramento-wwii-vet-receives-frances.html

"Under a program initiated by former French President Jacques Chirac in 2005 and continued by current President Nicolas Sarkozy, France is honoring U.S. veterans with its highest military award - created by Napoleon in 1802 - to thank them for their service in World War II."

A few more links from the San Francisco French Consulate website:

http://www.consulfrance-sanfrancisco.org/spip.php?article1447

http://www.consulfrance-sanfrancisco.org/spip.php?article1290

[Chris Boonzaier]

Yeah, I read about it awhile back. WWII vets who can prove that they fought on French soil are eligible to apply; awards for valor and/or receipt of a Purple Heart apparently help your case.

Here's a link to one story:

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/03/04/3450035/sacramento-wwii-vet-receives-frances.html

"Under a program initiated by former French President Jacques Chirac in 2005 and continued by current President Nicolas Sarkozy, France is honoring U.S. veterans with its highest military award - created by Napoleon in 1802 - to thank them for their service in World War II."

A few more links from the San Francisco French Consulate website:

http://www.consulfrance-sanfrancisco.org/spip.php?article1447

http://www.consulfrance-sanfrancisco.org/spip.php?article1290

Hmmm... seems to be a bit of a cheapening of the award.... almost like a political move.

I honestly dont see any reason why any WW2 vet who fought on french soil should merit one, even if he was wounded.

Does that go for Vets of all nations, or is it a simple France/USA thing?

best

Chrid

[Harvey]

I don't know if it applies to all vets, or if it's simply directed at the U.S. Maybe one of the Brits on here can inform us if the same thing is happening on their side of the pond.

I disagree that it's a cheapening of the award - according to the reports I've read, they select 100 WWII vets per year, based on service records, awards, wounds received, etc. I agree with Prosper - handing awards like this out to entertainers, politicians, celebrities, etc. is the real cheapening of the award. Recognizing and honoring a veteran for his services 60+ years later as a means of demonstrating that they (the French) have not forgotten the sacrifices that were made in order to liberate their country seems entirely appropriate. Hardly a cheapening of the award, IMHO.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Harvey

[Chris Boonzaier]

I disagree that it's a cheapening of the award - according to the reports I've read, they select 100 WWII vets per year, based on service records, awards, wounds received, etc. I agree with Prosper - handing awards like this out to entertainers, politicians, celebrities, etc. is the real cheapening of the award. Recognizing and honoring a veteran for his services 60+ years later as a means of demonstrating that they (the French) have not forgotten the sacrifices that were made in order to liberate their country seems entirely appropriate. Hardly a cheapening of the award, IMHO.

Civilians who have performed a service have always gotten it... same as the british OBE... i think the beatles got them, Bob Geldorf etc.

So Arnie got one, ... civilians and their medals... every soldier knows it looks the same, but is a "different" award....

Is the US handing out Medal of Honours to Vets because they are getting old? Are the british handing out VCs to vets because they are getting old?

I know ONE other rank that I knew when I was in the Legion, and he is the only one I know to have ever got the Legion of honour after 5 Bravery citations..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Rowe_(soldier)

It should not be given to soldiers /ex soldiers as a token of thanks long after the event, soldiers have a different way of earning it.

best

Chris

[Harvey]

I don't think you can make the comparison between the LdH and the MOH/VC, because those awards are given ONLY for conspicuous gallantry in the face of the enemy - NEVER to civilians.

I think we probably agree in principal on this issue - that awards should be given for the deeds performed, hopefully as soon after the event as possible. However, I also understand the desire to honor those veterans in their waning years and acknowledge their sacrifice, which is probably why such a big deal was made over the last WWI veteran here in the U.S., even though he hadn't done anything that remarkable during the Great War - but he was the only surviving representative of all those who had.

Frankly, I would rather see the French gov't award a Croix de Guerre or Medaille Militaire than the LdH to the veterans, as they are specifically military awards.

And thanks for your service as well, mate. :beer:

Edited April 9, 2011 by Harvey

[Chris Boonzaier]

And thanks for your service as well, mate.

When I am pushing 80 I will come apply for a Bronze star :lol:

[Chris Boonzaier]

I don't think you can make the comparison between the LdH and the MOH/VC, because those awards are given ONLY for conspicuous gallantry in the face of the enemy - NEVER to civilians.

Hi,

but if you are a soldier, NOT an officer, then you need Bravery to get the LdH.,

CdG needs a specific citation.

I guess this is just a goodwill gesture to the old guys... maybe a political angle... get them to change the menues back to "French Fries" etc. etc. ;-)

[Harvey]

I guess this is just a goodwill gesture to the old guys... maybe a political angle... get them to change the menues back to "French Fries" etc. etc. ;-)

It seems that unless a foreign decoration is awarded on the battlefield soon after the action occurred, there is most likely some type of political angle at work. I know a Marine pilot who received a British DFC, and one of our own on this forum was awarded a French decoration for his close support of the Legion, I believe.

As for Bronze Stars, the requirement for those has also changed over the years. For example, a WWII vet needs only to show that he was awarded a Combat Infantry Badge (CIB) in order to also be awarded a Bronze Star - so any infantryman who saw any type of action would thereby qualify. Nowadays it's a bit more stringent.

Strictly militarily speaking, it may or may not be appropriate to award the Legion d'Honneur to WWII vets at this late date, but I can't say that I begrudge them the honor, even if it is politically motivated. Anything that keeps their sacrifices in the (unfortunately short-termed) memory of our national conscience is probably a good thing.

Heroes never go out of fashion.

[TacHel]

I can only hope, actually pray that "Conan the Californian" got the LoH for work as the Governor of California in conjonction with the French government and that this wasn't in recognition of his movie fame...

Get down! Look out! Asta la vista baby! Peeeeeeelllllllleeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasee! :rolleyes:

[Harvey]

Unfortunately TacHel, it appears that that's exactly what it was for. I mean, it *was* awarded in Cannes, after all...

[TacHel]

Unfortunately TacHel, it appears that that's exactly what it was for. I mean, it *was* awarded in Cannes, after all...

The end of civilization as we know it... Who's next? Borat?

[Bison]

Hi everyone

I see that the Légion d'honneur is not only a French internal passionate debate when it is awarded to surprising people...

Bonaparte when he created this order in 1802 wanted to have a unified symbol for a unified nation with a unified elite under the Légion d'honneur order. Therefore, this award is dedicated to all outstanding merits and services; gallantry and poetry, artists, civil servants, lawyers and heroes etc. All are together, with the same badge, ribbon and degrees.

It is sometimes surprising, but it is like that.

Moreover it is worth to know that a non-French is just a 'recipient' of the Légion d'honneur and cannot be member of the Order. (I think there is an exception only for the Foreign Legion).

Bison