Söderbaum Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hi Hptm x Richter did receive the Knights Cross, 1st Class with swords of Albert Order on 19 Jun 15 as a member of FFA 16. However this man seems not to "exist"... Could his name be mis-spelled in O´Connors volume III of Saxon awards..? I search any hint to find possible regiment etc. I could not find any information on him within the Air Force after mid 1915. Gunnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Hi, Don't forget that Hptm Richter was a Prussian officer and not a Saxon one. That's why he's not in the O'Connor's book vol. 3. Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Söderbaum Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hi Christophe I am aware of that Hptm Richter not was a Saxon as mentioned in OC3. However, If i refine my question, and ask for if it existed any Prussian Hauptleute Richter with this rank around summer 1915..? FFA 16 was part of the 8 German Army on the Eastern front since BOW, and it is high chance that Hptm Richter was picked up from an AK within this Army for flying duty. It was actually rather comon. And as it dont exist records for him later on within the Air Force, he rather certain returned to his regiment. I will be glad for any hints - names Gunnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 However, If i refine my question, and ask for if it existed any Prussian Hauptleute Richter with this rank around summer 1915..? The problem isn't whether a Hptm. Richter existed, it's that there are too many. The SA3aX was awarded on 19 June 1915. At that time, there were at least 20 Hptm. Richters in the Prussian Army. Of these, I can rule out ten for various reasons (we know what units they were in in 1915 or we know what awards they had, and no SA3aX). Of the remaining ten, a few are unlikely for various reasons (age, branch), but can't be completely ruled out. And there remains the possibility that there are others besides the 20 I counted. I already ruled out several others who were Hauptleute in 1914 because they were promoted to Major or retired by early 1915, but there may be a few I missed because they were Oberleutnants whose promotion date to Hauptmann I couldn't find. And there are also possibly some recalled Hauptleute a.D. who might have been too old to fly, but could have been staff officers in FFA 16. The ten: Hptm. Richter, FR 39, 1919 Maj.a.D. Hptm. Richter, FAR 70, 1919 Maj.a.D. Hptm.d.R. Richter, JägB 10 (BMV4X 5.11.14) Hptm.d.L.-Inf. I. Aufg. Richter, Ldw.Bez. Danzig, Inf., KO4, LD1 Hptm.d.L.-Inf. I. Aufg. Richter, Ldw.Bez. Hamburg II, LD1 Hptm.d.L.-Inf. I. Aufg. Richter, Ldw.Bez. Magdeburg, LD1 Hptm.d.L.-Inf. I. Aufg. Richter, Ldw.Bez. Wohlau, LD2 Hptm. Richter, IR 54 (1914 Olt. Hptm. 21.12.14; 1919 Maj.a.D.) Hptm. Richter, Pion.Btl. 8 (1914 Olt., Hptm. 5.9.14; gef. 20.9.16 als Hptm.i.G., XVIII.R.K.) Hptm.d.R. Richter, FAR 40 (1914 Olt.d.R., Hptm.d.R. 22.5.15) In addition, in 1914 there were Oberleutnants d.R. in FR 38 and FR 86 for whom I can't find a promotion date, but who might have been Hauptleute by June 1915. There were also at least seven Oberleutnants d.L. in 1914 for whom I can't find a promotion date to Hauptmann. Regards, Dave] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Söderbaum Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 Great information Dave..! In cases like this it is no big problem if you have 5 or 20 candidates because you have some vital clues. The minor problem is the Hauptleute dL and aD where you often dont knew the actual regiment at a certain time. FFA (Feld Fliegerabteilung) 16 was an AOK unit within 8 Army which means they were under "direct" order from the General of this Army. The unit was also responsible for long distant recce flights over the Russian lines within the whole Army sector. As mentioned in my earlier post it was not uncomon that stab personal from the AOK took part in these flights (clue 1) for shorter or longer periods. More important to identify these who got Saxon awards and who not were Saxon is the fact (clue 2) that they probably worked together-within a Saxon regiment or AK. So in cases like this you need to find were Saxon Army units were stationed at a certain time. I have a Saxon friend who can help in cases like this. However Dave, I think you nailed this Hptm Richter with 80 % in first try.. Hptm Richter (observer) received this award at same date as his pilot, the Oblt Franz Hagen who received the award 2nd Class. Personal connection (clue 3). Hagens original regiment was IR 54, same as one of your candidates. Maybe it exist a history of this regiment..? I only need now to find more info on this Hptm Richter from IR 54 to verify or exclude him. I am very glad you took your time Dave to present these possible candidates. Gunnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) Gunnar, I have been working on a similar exercise to Dave but I did restrict myself to the active officers. I have Oberleutnant Richter of I.R. 54 as Hans. He was attending the War Academy in Berlin in the years immediately prior to the war. Regards Glenn Edited May 27, 2011 by Glenn J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Söderbaum Posted May 27, 2011 Author Share Posted May 27, 2011 Thanks Glenn A first name is a good help to come further and solve this Hans Richter... We also knew aproximate Year of birth and probably area of birth. So I am hopeful in this case beacuse there are some sources to dig in. Gunnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Hagen died while serving with FA 16 in 1917. According the Ehrenmal des preussischen Offizierkorps, a Hptm dR Richter of IR 54 was wounded with LdwIR 9 in August 1914 and died in 1918. This seems to be in contradiction with the Ehren-Rangliste? Unfortunately, IR 54 has only half a regimental history (1914-16) with no list of casualties, so no help there. I checked but there is no Hptm. Richter mentioned in the officers of the regiment at mobilization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Söderbaum Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Thanks AOK4.. Interesting and valuable added information on Hptm Richter, The note that he was WIA in Aug 14 and the connection to IR 9... However the fact that this source says he died in 1918 and another source note him as Major aD in 1919 is intruging.. Gunnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn J Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Gunnar, there is a simple explanation; two different Richters in IR. 54: Hauptmann d.R. Richter (Landwehrbezirk I Essen) Oberleutnant (later char. Major) Hans Richter. Regards Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Söderbaum Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Thanks for the clarification Glenn Gunnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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