question on medal bar and italien crown order...

[HeikoGrusdat]

Hello all,

here is a very nice medal bar and of course my question: is it possible to ID the owner, maybe with the combination HHO + Italien Crown...?! My problem is that I know nothing about the italien crown order... who got it? how often was it awarded? for what was it awarded?

Maybe an italien expert is under us...

thank you

Heiko

PS: Backing is grey...

[Stogieman]

Greetings Heiko! A very nice bar. It is always interesting to see these Hesse ribbons that fade to white. I think it will be a little hard to find your man because so much invisible war-time stuff on the bar. The Italian & 25 Year LSC might help, but we'll have to wait for the Wizards to check in!

[Stogieman]

Oh, before he spanks you, please post a photo of the back.

[HeikoGrusdat]

here is the reverse...

[Guest Rick Research]

Ha! Indeed, sometimes the BACK is the key... but not here, alas. Typical Godet color, but not their usual mounting. This one doesn't tell us anything as to uniform color it was worn on.

Is that a STEEL SW Africa?

Because there is nothing on here that a pre-1914 Rank List would show but the Italian Crown Order 5th Class (given to Lieutenants), that will not be possible to identify anybody. And with no apparent post-war military career, there is no way to use the dreadful wartime HHOX List to try and pluck out holders of the pre-war Italian Crown.

If this had been navy, with a much more limited pool of HHOX recipients-- ALL of whom are know, and wartime Rank Lists showing most (but not all) awards at least to 1917, that would have helped.

[HeikoGrusdat]

Hi Rick,

yes the Africa is steel...

so this crown order is for lieutenants - one more thing that I know now, thank you.

It was just a try for a lucky punch... I would not really have expected an ID - but with you nothing is impossible...

thanks so far

Heiko

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, he joined between 1897 (no Centenary Medal) and 1902 (no overseas service to come up with that XXV with the World War years doubled and counted as ten from 1914-18), so...

he was a Captain during WW1 and retired as a Major. Born between say 1877 and 1884.

He was left handed, with brown hair and a surgical scar...

[HeikoGrusdat]

I am not totally shure about his hairs....

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Help me out here... That's a post Hindeburg Cross bar so 30's. And now it has the medals on it that weren't worn wartime. Can you assume he was retired when this bar was put together and just put back on everything including the Italy piece? He was retired and not subject to any regs?

[Bob Hunter]

Italy chose some "new" allies in 1915 so wear of Italian decorations may have been discontinued after that date until...? I have an attributed bar to an officer who recieved the Order of the Italian Crown before the war. He was KIA in November 1914 with no record of even an EKII.

That said, lovely bar Heiko.

[webr55]

Ok, I wouldn't call this a 100% positive ID. I know that the HHOX roll is incomplete and so on. So let's say it is an educated guess, based on the information available:

There are about 22 possibilites with only a JK5 in the RL1914. All of them can be ruled out (KIA, RH service, PROBABLY no HHOX, ...) but two:

Hauptmann Firnhaber, 1.10.1913 P16p, IR6, HHOX 22.12.1917, 1919 Maj aD

Hauptmann Michaelis, 1.10.1912 X22x, IR98, HHOX 18.9.1917, 1919 Maj aD

Now what is interesting: There is a Hptm Fritz Michaelis who got the SA3aX on 15.11.1917. This should be him - and would rule him out...

which leaves Firnhaber as my favourite suspect!

[HeikoGrusdat]

if 100% or not - great job, thank you very much for your work on this!!!!