Mitya Ivanov Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Dear friends, here are some photos of Pershian Shahs and high-rank official (ambassador to Russia) in caps with an emblem: two lions with suns rising above their backs; they hold swords and Qajar Kiyani Crown. A lit (burning) grenade is at their feet (just under the crown). Later Reza Shah put this emblem in the corners of his coronation banner in 1926. Is it really an emblem of Persian Army? As we know one more cap badge (just Luon-and-Sun - without any additions) was used during this period. But what was the difference in their usage since those with Lion-and-Sun badge were also military-men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Reza Shah banner with this emblem (took part in his coronation in 1926). Photo by Time/Life photographer Loomis Dean, 1963. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Very nice post Mitya! Hopefully someone has an answer.Perhaps the different emblems had something to do with rank since they were used concurrently. Great looking portrait photos. Edited February 27, 2012 by Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 "to do with rank since they were used concurrently..." Let's wait until somebody tell us!:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well let`s look at this two guys caps Mirza Martiros Khan Davidkhanian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) And this one Edited February 28, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 And you will certanly recognize this one ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 And then again two lions with suns rising above their backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well there are three variation of insignia on the caps 1) none (not that uncommon variant ) 2) standing lion with sword 3) two lions with suns rising above their backs If "two lions with suns rising above their backs" is really an exclusive emblem of Persian Army, then why these guys have "standing lion with sword" cockades (they are certanly not wondering professors ) Regards, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 That was my question, Nick! Do you have any answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) That was my question, Nick! I missed the second part Sorry about that. Consequences of agitation?! Do you have any answer? Nothing definitive for the moment But I don't think that "two lions with suns rising above their backs" was an emblem of Persian army or military cockade (in the usual meaning of this term). If it really was, then why there are photos of military Persians without any cockades on their caps... From the same time period... Another strong argument against this idea - we don't observe cockades on caps of Persian Cossack officers (I am preparing a piece about them ) and Persian Cossack Brigade was the best unit of Persian Army... As for the true meaning of this two different cockades... No clear idea... But I'll look into it Regards, Nick Edited February 29, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Well, Nick, I supposed these badges to be a privilege of the highest military commanders (and court officials?) - not of the whole army and not of every officer. And Persian Cossacks bore their own uniform - quite usual for any royal guard). BTW, I am sure you know this button (see att.). I believe it is a late-Qajarian button for Foreign Affairs Office or diplomatic staff (ambassadors etc): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Button: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 NB: there are no suns above the backs of 'military' lions-crownbearers on Reza-Shah banner!:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Well, Nick, I supposed these badges to be a privilege of the highest military commanders (and court officials?) - not of the whole army and not of every officer. And Persian Cossacks bore their own uniform - quite usual for any royal guard). BTW, I am sure you know this button (see att.). I believe it is a late-Qajarian button for Foreign Affairs Office or diplomatic staff (ambassadors etc): Exactly! Badges! If the soldiers and most of the officers were excluded, then it was some sort of special badge/insignia (in the form and in the place of usual cockade). As for the general insignia of Persian army check this out: "...A uniform of some sort and firearm was all that was necessary to make a Persian soldier..." from Lt.Col. Henry Picot special report on organization of Persian army, 1900. Sound like a militia to me As for Cossack... They wore usual cassack uniform... Nothing special and fancy... Royal guards... Hmmm... More likely Foreign Legion But if this special badge/cockade indeed was special military badge/cockade, than why some military top-brass Persians got it and the others didn't? (we have photos of caps without this insignia). Because it was some sort of decoration? I have doubts about it... And I don't observe (on the photos) any clear pattern "two lions with grenade = top-brass military" Banner... Well, in the center we have national coat of arms and on the every (?) corner "two lions with "grenade"". Maybe they thought "one big sun in the center is enough"? From heraldic point of view Cheers, Nick P.S. Nice looking botton by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 "As for Cossack... They wore usual cassack uniform... Nothing special and fancy..." Oh, I've just meant it was different from any other uniform in Persian Army. Though yes, it was quite usual for cossacks. "But if this special badge/cockade indeed was special military badge/cockade, than why some military top-brass Persians got it and the others didn't?" THAT is exactly what I fail to realize. "And I don't observe (on the photos) any clear pattern "two lions with grenade = top-brass military" Neither do I "Banner... Well, in the center we have national coat of arms" Sorry for my puritanic rigorism, dear friend - not a COA in fact, but a state emblem. "and on the every (?) corner "two lions with "grenade"". Maybe they thought "one big sun in the center is enough"? From heraldic point of view It is not a heraldic point of view:) Everything is quite clear here, you see: the state emblem represents the main role of Shahanshah as a head of state. And 'military' lions (on every corner, yes) stand for Shahanshah's function as a Chief Commander of Iranian Armed Forces. BTW on the other side of this banner there are LS-emblems in every corner (hope you/ve seen it in my article). "P.S. Nice looking botton by the way" bOtton? Oh my Freud:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) "Banner... Well, in the center we have national coat of arms" Sorry for my puritanic rigorism, dear friend - not a COA in fact, but a state emblem. "and on the every (?) corner "two lions with "grenade"". Maybe they thought "one big sun in the center is enough"? From heraldic point of view It is not a heraldic point of view:) Everything is quite clear here, you see: the state emblem represents the main role of Shahanshah as a head of state. And 'military' lions (on every corner, yes) stand for Shahanshah's function as a Chief Commander of Iranian Armed Forces. BTW on the other side of this banner there are LS-emblems in every corner (hope you/ve seen it in my article). "P.S. Nice looking botton by the way" bOtton? Oh my Freud:) "Die Traumdeutung" should be the handbook of every phalerist P.S. "Puritanic rigorism"...What the heck is that?! We don't use such compound words in phaleristics :lol: Edited February 29, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 You’re gonna love this one mate Not your usual individual photo-portrait … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Some of these pure-minded Persians have “two lions” cockades on their caps and others “standing lion” cockades. Go figure! But at least now we know for a fact that these two cockades were in use simultaneously… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 We knew it long BEFORE, my dear friend, but my SPECIAL thanks to you for all these new proofs. "Go figure!" - Grrrrrrrrrrrrr(oaning:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 BEFORE ... SPECIAL ... New "big letter" style ... Looks even cooler than old "underlining" style Cheers mate, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) This rare 1936 Mauser contract P.08 Luger as produced specially for Iran. There were two contracts for this model of Luger, one was in 1936 and the second contract was in 1942, with 1000 pistols ordered in each contract. I know you are not into firearms mate, but you are definitely into Coats of Arms And at the top of the chamber area you will find one Another nice example for Mitya collection ... Cheers, Nick Edited April 14, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 James Bond style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 The real deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now