Turkey Medjidie and Osmanie medal identification request.

[parklife]

Hello,

I have received these beautiful medals, handed down to me from my uncle in England. He was unsure as to their history but believed them to be from late 1890's. I have been doing some family reseach and have discovered that a relative who i have a DSO from and other sudan war medals was also recognised for a 3rd class Medjidie (gazette 19/4/1901) and 3rd class Osmanie (gazette 26/9/1902). I am presuming that these are most likely his medals. Would anyone be able to help identfying these medals and assiting me to date them?? Thank you very much for any help you can offer.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-13782-0-55238000-1335584860.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-13782-0-29726000-1335584869.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-13782-0-34868900-1335584875.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-13782-0-71698000-1335584884.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2012/post-13782-0-93617300-1335584913.jpg

[922F]

You have two excellent condition, cased Ottoman awards. The one in the red case is indeed a 3rd class Medjidie and the other, a 3rd class Osmanie. Both appear to be of 1890s-1910s manufacture. Given the provenance, these are very likely the actual awards earned by your relative.

[parklife]

Thank you for your reply. I think they have been sitting in these cases for 100 years!! It was only on inspecting some other medals that i noticed the engravement of a distant relative ( a captain who became a major) and have been able to "join the dots" and find out about him also winning these medals. I'll be sure to look after them. Thanks again.

[922F]

You are most certainly welcome. Thank you for sharing images of these beautiful awards!

Based on the award dates, it is possible that your relative was seconded to the Khedival administration in some capacity. Most members would appreciate viewing, or a list of, any other medals associated with your relative that you may have or know about. That would help place them in context.

[parklife]

Hi there.

I have got an article on my relative which i have pasted here..

GoddenHenry TuftonCaptainGODDEN, HENRY TUFTON, Major, was born 6 December 1858, in London, son of Frederick Mares and Sarah Mary Godden. He was educated at the Royal Naval School, New Cross, and at private schools and the Royal Military College, Sandhurst; entered the Bedfordshire Regiment 13 August 1879; was Adjutant, Bedfordshire Regiment, 1 January 1888 to 3 December 1891, and became Captain 7 March 1888. He served in the Dongola Expeditionary Force in 1896, as Brigade Major, 3rd Brigade; operations of 8 September to 5 October 1896; was mentioned in Despatches [London Gazette, 3 November 1896], and received the Egyptian Medal with clasps for Firket and Hafir. He served in the Nile Expedition of 1897 (clasp to Medal); in the Nile Expedition of 1898, and was present at the Battle of Atbara; was mentioned in Despatches [London Gazette, 24 May 1898]; received a clasp to Medal; the English Medal, and in recognition of his services in Egypt and the Sudan, including the Battle of Atbara, was created a Companion of the Distinguished Service Order [London Gazette, 15 November 1898]: "Henry Tufton Godden, Captain, The Bedfordshire Regiment". The Insignia were sent to the GOC, Egypt, and presented to the Commandant of Suakin at Suakin. He became Major 10 July 1899. He served in the Nile Expedition of 1899; in the first advance against the Khalifa (clasp to Medal). He was Acting Governor of the Red Sea Littoral and Commandant at Suakin 29 April 1898 to 6 March 1899, and Administrator and Commandant at Suakin 7 March 1899 to 25 March 1902; received the 3rd Class Medjidie [London Gazette, 19 April 1901], and the 3rd Class Osmanieh [London Gazette, 26 September 1902]. He retired from the Army in 1906. On 11 January 1911, at Fremantle, Western Australia, Major Godden married Amelia Marguerite Axell (English), second daughter of A Axell, of Sittingbourne, Kent, and they had one son, Philip Axell Godden, born 16 November 1911. Major Godden returned to England 29 November 1914; was posted to the 9th Battalion The Bedfordshire Regiment 15 January 1915, as Major; appointed Second-in-Command of the 9th Battalion The Bedfordshire Regiment 21 January 1915, and appointed to command the 9th Battalion The Bedfordshire Regiment 7 February 1915, and was replaced on retired pay 14 June 1916.

Source: DSO recipients (VC and DSO Book)Bedfordshire Regiment

I have included his Sudan and Egypt medals for you to see. The name Capt H T GODDEN is engraved on the side. I have also included a DSO which i think could be his. My uncle believes it is from his father in WW2 who was a squadron leader but I can find no record of this and considering it is clear that Henry Godden won a DSO and I have his other medals i think it more likely to be from there. Is there a way of guessing the date of a DSO?? I have included the stamp of the Goldsmith/Jeweller in case that helps. (in case it is not clear on the photo the name is R & S. GARRARD & CO

Goldsmith & Jewellar

To the Crown

25, HAYMARKET, LONDON )

Thank you again for any advise that may add to my knowledge of how these awards could have been won.http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-13782-0-92221100-1335951592.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-13782-0-71704400-1335951594.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-13782-0-61423900-1335951596.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-13782-0-56678100-1335951598.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2012/post-13782-0-82972200-1335952377.jpg

[kapten_windu]

this is a beautiful group! a family treasure..! :cheers:

[922F]

Thank you for posting Henry Tufton Godden's biography/service record and images of his other decorations!! You are fortunate to have these family awards indeed!! You are correct that the DSO is his, most certainly confirmed by the central cypher--that of Queen Victoria. It may be possible to find the original citation for his DSO -- several persons research British military archives for reasonable fees. Though I have little expertise with those matters, other GMIC members may be able to assist with researchers' names and contact information.

Edited May 8, 2012 by 922F

[parklife]

Thank you for your comments.

I will look into getting some further information on the D.S.O.

I would like to get these medals cleaned and boxed properly and the information I have got from here is fantastic to keep alongside these medals for the future.

[spfoo]

I'd appreciate some help as well. I have a couple of photos of one in my set. It's very likely a fake, but would be interesting to know what it is trying to represent.

[922F]

You appear to have a somewhat battered but genuine 3rd class Ottoman Medjidie Order missing the reverse central portion & with a wire [?] replacing the suspension hinge. The cravat loop is incomplete [cut] and the obverse center [which may be gold] is a bit 'rotated'.

Many manufacture variations exist, especially in regard to suspension attachment methods. Usually, Turkish-made made pieces' reverse centers have an inscription like that in the second image, first post. Infrequently, this is on a seperate piece of metal. Foreign-made pieces sometimes have a plate with the maker's identification information on the reverse center.

Copies of this award certainly exist. Yours does not appear to be a fake; I'd guess that it was made in Turkey.

Edited July 1, 2012 by 922F

[spfoo]

Thank you very much for your comments. As this one didn't have the box and as you say seemed quite worn out I didn't think much of it. I have another one that is in it's possibly original box. Would be great to learn more about it.

[922F]

A somewhat damaged but genuine 5th class Ottoman Osmanie Order with reverse central medallion 'rotated' about 90 degrees. Probably in a Medjidie original issue case....compare with the last image in the first post above. The outer case lid may have an inscription like that one. If the bottom character is the same, then it is a commander case and likely belongs with your Medjidie badge. Almost certainly made in Turkey.

[spfoo]

Indeed. The case has the same inscriptions as in the case in the first post photo. The cases are probably mixed as another silver medal which I identified from wikipedia as the Imtiyaz Medal is in a a green case which is likely meant for the green Osmanie Order medal. Thank you again for your help.

[922F]

You are certainly welcome. If the green outer case lid has what looks like an "O" as the bottom character, then it is a 5th class case and likely originally accompanied your Osmanie Order.

[drclaw]

Thanks gents for an entertaining thread. I always enjoy looking at these medals, especially the Order of Osmanie

Spfoo, have a look at Markus's thread on "Restoring enamels" in the "Preservation and Restoration of Military Artifacts".

There are a couple of folks who professionally restore enamels so that's something you might wish to consider if you have an attachment to this particular Osmanie. The cost is not expensive but of course it'll come down to the value of the medal.

[avsaribar]

Hello ,

I would like to add few points ...

That Medjidie Order is NOT an Ottoman Made one , it is a foreign made Medjidie .

That Osmanie Order is NOT 5th class , it is a 4th class Osmanie Order ... 5th Class Osmanie do not exist ...

All the best ,

Avsar Ibar

[drclaw]

Hello Avsar!

Hope life is treating you well.

Were all 4th Class Osmanies awarded with a rosette? I've seen some with and some without.

Gavin

[avsaribar]

Hello Gavin ,

Everything is perfect here , hope you and your family well too .

If you mean the Rosette on the ribbons of the Osmsnie orders , no , all of them did not awarded with rosette .

All the best ,

Avsar

P.S: My web site is updated you can check it from www.turkishmedals.com

[drclaw]

Hello Avsar,

Congratulations on your website! It looks simply magnificent!

You have many beautiful things.

All the best, Gavin

[avsaribar]

Thank you very much for your kind attitude for my web page.

Kind Regards ,

Avsar