Sweden Cap. Archibald Haddock's visor cap

[Mandelstam]

First of all, hi, I'm new here and this is my first post!

This is maybe a bit off topic as far as it's probably not related to militaria, it's a more a civilian topic. But I hope that you maybe can help me anyway, you all sound very knowledgeable in the matter of visor caps and insignias and so on.

I'm a really big Tintin fan. And especially a captain Haddock fan. Right now I'm working on a "replica" of Haddock's visor hat. It all started off as I was trying to search for a real time historic cap that Hergé might have used as reference for Haddock's cap. But it all ended up with me starting to sew a replica of his hat instead. I've used a Swedish cap from the sixties as a reference to create the pattern. I basically deconstructed the whole thing, scanned the pieces and put it all into AutoCad to make my modifications based on reference drawings by Hergé and from the latest movie. That is all coming along nicely, I'm waiting for some leather that I ordered for the sweat band and the visor before I can start to assemble all the pieces.

Now to my questions...

First of all, have you seen or know of a navy visor cap that looks like or could be the reference that Hergé might have used? I know that he was meticulous when it came to research and I do believe that he had some real life caps as an inspiration at least. To my knowledge Haddock has always been a civilian captain of the merchant navy. Does the color and double bands along the sides correspond to that thesis? I've sort of always pictured civilian captains with white visor caps...

Secondly, I've started to do more detailed research and planning for the insignia. I've bought some real cannetille from a guy in France that has a sister in law that does embroidery with cannetille for a living. But for the design I have some doubts for which road to go down. In the comic the insignia is all yellow/gold with a black anchor. In the latest movie the insignia has a cannetille wreath (don't know the proper name) on a yellow fabric bottom and an anchor of brass or other yellow metal. Which one does look more authentic to you? while googling for reference pictures I've seen many insignias with canetille wreath and anchor on a black or navy blue felt bottom, but none with a "negative" anchor as in the comic or like the one in the movie. It could just be that it was easier to draw it that way for Hergé as the hat always is depicted very small on paper.

Any thoughts? Comments? Ideas?

Karl

[TacHel]

Suggested reading: http://marine-inconnue.blogspot.ca/2011/11/le-mystere-de-la-casquette-du-capitaine.html

Nice project! I've been a fan of Haddock for 45 years! :)

[Chris Boonzaier]

I think the problem is... sailor suits are more or less generic...

Put a Swedish, French, Chinese, Australian and Peruvan navy Officer in a line up, blank out the faces... and unless you are a specialist, noone will know who is who...

Best

Chris

[Mandelstam]

Suggested reading: http://marine-inconn...-capitaine.html

Nice project! I've been a fan of Haddock for 45 years!

That was nice reading even though I had to use Google Translate. It seems like the plot thickens where Haddock's cap is concerned.

I think the problem is... sailor suits are more or less generic...

Put a Swedish, French, Chinese, Australian and Peruvan navy Officer in a line up, blank out the faces... and unless you are a specialist, noone will know who is who...

Best

Chris

But if someone would have sent you a picture of that cap, what would your first guess be? Merchant navy? Ordinary navy? Captain? Origin?

Thanks for your input and help!

/Karl

[Chris Boonzaier]

But if someone would have sent you a picture of that cap, what would your first guess be? Merchant navy? Ordinary navy? Captain? Origin?

Thanks for your input and help!

/Karl

I think the possibilities are endless.

Merchant navy or shipping company.... It could have been a steam ship company in Chile, or the private boat of some pascha... I would think there were many small companies that designed their own uniforms, depending on the tast of the owner... or his wife.

best

Chrisd

[Mandelstam]

I think the possibilities are endless.

Merchant navy or shipping company.... It could have been a steam ship company in Chile, or the private boat of some pascha... I would think there were many small companies that designed their own uniforms, depending on the tast of the owner... or his wife.

best

Chrisd

Haha, ok I think I'm starting to understand. And to be honest I like that answer a lot! Captain Haddock's mysterious history is still intact. And it gives me a lot more freedom to just strictly follow the details in the comic and not have to consider "what it would have looked like in real life".

Here is a quick mockup I did in paper of the pattern I created. It will be made of black felted wool, black leather brim (maybe I'll turn it into some very basic patent leather) and golden purl embroidery for the insignia. The lining will be made of black silk fabric. For the double braiding I think I'll make them out of some yellow/golden silk braiding I have in a box somewhere. And I just the other day discovered the thing called "sweat diamond", and of course i have to have that as well. With a old yellowed piece of paper saying "A. Haddock"

Thanks again!

/Karl

[TacHel]

More reading for you, again in French, just select cut and paste into Google translate.

This picture of a French merchant seaman's cap might answer a few questions for you: http://pmm-metz.skyrock.com/2857007594-Casquette-marmar.html

The French Navy caps had (dunno if this is still true today) the ranks around the base of the cap. Have a look at this web sight about the history of French naval uniforms, scroll down, you'll see the cap of a commander with 5 bars. Scroll down further, you'll see a belt buckle quite ressembling Haddock's cap badge. http://historic-marine-france.com/uniforme/uniforme.htm

[Bob]

There was an exhibit at a Brussels museum decades ago where items depicted in Tintin comics were put next to the "real" thing. Herge took inspiration from many items in the ethnographic museum in Brussels. Along with that exhibit a book was also published (sort of like a catalogue - showing strips of Tintin comics, photographs of the actual items and text with background). I have that book in Dutch and it was also published in French. I am not home so do not have access to it, otherwise i could confirm whether perhaps there was detail on the background of Haddock in it incl his hat.

http://www.zwiggelaarauctions.nl/index.php?p=a&select=10,102,4857

The book can easily found for sale online as well.

[Mandelstam]

More reading for you, again in French, just select cut and paste into Google translate.

This picture of a French merchant seaman's cap might answer a few questions for you: http://pmm-metz.skyr...tte-marmar.html

The French Navy caps had (dunno if this is still true today) the ranks around the base of the cap. Have a look at this web sight about the history of French naval uniforms, scroll down, you'll see the cap of a commander with 5 bars. Scroll down further, you'll see a belt buckle quite ressembling Haddock's cap badge. http://historic-mari...me/uniforme.htm

Thanks for the links! The second page I have studied a few times already! A lot of great stuff!

Right now my main concern is how I should design the cap badge. I started out thinking I would do it like it looked in the Spielberg movie, a wreath of cannetille (purl thread), a base of some golden/yellow fabric and an anchor in metal.

I got hold of a really nice looking anchor on E-bay that looked good, but it's just a bit large in my eyes, if only by maybe 5mm in all directions but it makes the badge a bit too big to look like Haddock's cap.

Then I started to just google images on cap badges and saw that the vast majority consisted of only the gold thread embroidery on, usually, black felt. I know there is badges with metal anchors or emblems as well, but the anchor badges I've seen was mostly embroidered. So I started thinking that maybe I'll do a wreath in cannetille, fill the inner ellipse with cannetille in horizontal rows but sort of leave a space in the form of an anchor. If I use black felt as the base I'll end up with a black anchor on a golden badge. That way I'll come quite close to Hergés drawings and I can also make it exactly the size I want it to. It goes against all the images I've seen on naval cap badges where the anchor is always embroidered, but then I think - why not? Why not make it unique?

There was an exhibit at a Brussels museum decades ago where items depicted in Tintin comics were put next to the "real" thing. Herge took inspiration from many items in the ethnographic museum in Brussels. Along with that exhibit a book was also published (sort of like a catalogue - showing strips of Tintin comics, photographs of the actual items and text with background). I have that book in Dutch and it was also published in French. I am not home so do not have access to it, otherwise i could confirm whether perhaps there was detail on the background of Haddock in it incl his hat.

http://www.zwiggelaa...ect=10,102,4857

The book can easily found for sale online as well.

That really sounds like an interesting book! I will see if I can try to find it. And I guess the pictures do most of the talking so it shouldn't matter that it's in French or Dutch... Too bad you can't use Google Translate on printed books yet. ;)

[Bob]

double post

Edited May 6, 2012 by Bob

[Bob]

Don't forget that Herge, Tintin and Haddock were Belgian rather than French...

[Mandelstam]

There is no exact proof that Haddock was in fact Belgian. Not that I can find anyway. And the stripes on the cap, if I've understood everything correctly, may suggest that at least the cap is French. And he has an ancestor (François de Hadoque) that served under Louis XIV. So to be honest I'm not so sure anymore that he is 100% Belgian.

[Bob]

Herge used a french chateux as inspiration for Marlinspike Hall, but Marlinspike Hall is located (in the comic itself) not far from where Tintin lives, which is in Belgium.

http://www.chateau-cheverny.fr/

Before Haddock acquired Marlinspike Hall he was also living in Belgium.

I have a Herge authorized limited edition notary document describing the grounds of Marlinspike Hall in great detail and it is in Belgium. I would say there are more indications that Haddock is Belgian than French.

Älso: "The original English language translators of the Tintin books caused some confusion by giving the address of Marlinspike Hall as "Marlinshire, England" in The Secret of the Unicorn. However details such as traffic travelling on the right hand side of the road and the appearance of the Marlinspike police (who wear the black and red uniforms of the Belgian Gendarmerie) confirm that Hergé's intention was to locate the Hall in his native Belgium."

I don't see any reason the assume he'd be wearing a French uniform.

[Mandelstam]

Yes Moulinsart castle is in Belgium, and Haddock was living in Belgium. But I was rather pointing out a few points that may or may not suggest that he has another nationality or at least that he may have served under French flag, maybe even British (with captain Chester). One can live in one country and still have another nationality. He wears a cap that looks French according to some people who know more about that than I do, he has an ancestor that served Louis XIV, a French king that awarded him a castle outside Brussels (how that now is possible?). But that he served Louis XIV don't necessarily mean that he was French, I know, but not Belgian either...

There is a lot of discussions on the topic on various forums though so I'm not the only one who have my doubts, or rather some unanswered questions.

I know that 95% of the facts points to him being Belgian, but it's the 5% of uncertainty that nags me. And I guess we'll never know Haddocks full family history.

Here is an interesting example with some quite good argumentation for Haddock being British, or at least of British descent:

http://www.tintinolo...page=4#msg15687