Ulsterman Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 Cool. it makes sense that this would be some sort of dR or war volunteer /specialist in Togoland but not a regular, so no LS. I had originally assumed navy as those NCOs/ deck officers got AEZs ( so did regular army )NCOs for merit whereas Schutztrppn seem to have received the prussian military medal. I figured some sort of Schnalle. 1894/5 was a horrific genocidal campaign and as near as I can tell, no navy units really qualified for the bar for service in country.. On the colonial website Captain Albert states that the bar was a Weimar era purchase, which makes sense.
Rogi Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Ok I am so thankful to the Phaleristics Academy of Portugal, they have provided a list of recipients from 1894 to 1910 (the only time recipients from Germany were awarded in the 1920s was in 1927 and all Navy so most likely the recipient for this medal bar could not have come from that time I requested to be able to share the list publicly and it was accepted. The Academy requested that if it is possible to rectify some of the names of the recipients, (some recipients just have family names), if the experts here on the forum could dig these recipients out it would be amazing so the full name could be provided in the listings Here is the listing, I hope it would be easier now to narrow down a possible recipient for this Medal Bar?I will post an English version tomorrow, getting late here but I already see a couple names that aren't regular army or navy that might be a possible:Decreto de 6 de Dezembro de 1895 (D.G. 285, 1895)CavaleiroGraf von Schönborn-Wiesentheid, Capitão, Ajudante-de-campo do Chanceler AlemãoWilhelm Eugen Joseph Kalm, Capitão do Exército AlemãoRichard Hofricter, Capitão do Exército AlemãoJoseph Karl Emmanuel Alexander Münstermann, Capitão do Exército AlemãoHeinrich Rudolph von Cuckvort, Capitão do Exército AlemãoSterne Walter von Mombary, Capitão do Exército AlemãoOtto von Pluskow, Capitão do Exército AlemãoCarl von Bodien, Capitão do Exército AlemãoCarta Régia de 1 de Janeiro de 1896 (D.G. 6, 1896)CavaleiroJohannes Hann, Tenente da Marinha de guerra Imperial AlemãKarl Tagert, Tenente da Marinha de guerra Imperial AlemãDecreto de 6 de Junho de 1896 (D.G. 132, 1896)CavaleiroKonrad Wilhelm Gustav Herman, Graf Finck von Finckenstein, Capitão do 1º Regimento de Infantaria da Guarda Imperial do Exército Imperial AlemãoDecreto de 25 de Novembro de 1897 (D.G. 278, 1897)CavaleiroAdolf von Drebber, Tenente de Artilharia do Exército Imperial AlemãoDecreto de 12 de Maio de 1898 (D.G. 107, 1898)CavaleiroArthur Freiherr von Luthvitz, Capitão do Exército AlemãoCarta Régia de 26 de Maio de 1898 (D.G. 124, 1898)CavaleiroScheunemann, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaReinhold Fischer, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaStilzel, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaBunnemam, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaFreiherr von Ledebur, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaRitter von Waechter, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaRobertson, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaVon Bodecker, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaFritz Schmidt, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaErnst Hoffmam, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaDr. Wentel, Médico da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaDr. Schacht, Médico da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaStiegel, Maquinista da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaGrieb, Comissário da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaCarta Régia de 15 de Junho de 1899 (D.G. 138, 1899)CavaleiroBossart, Capitão-Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaWerthmann, Capitão-Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaPindter, Capitão-Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaWachsmann, Almoxarife Mor da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaGraf von Posadowsky, Tenente de 1ª classe da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaCarta Régia de 13 de Agosto de 1899 (D.G. 209, 1899)CavaleiroMersmann, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaDecreto de 27 de Setembro de 1899 (D.G. 237, 1899)CavaleiroVon Weise, Capitão do Exército Alemão, Adido Militar da Alemanha em LisboaDecreto de 31 de Maio de 1900 (D.G. 126, 1900)CavaleiroFriedrich Franz Max Ahlers, Capitão do Regimento de Fuzileiros da Guarda AlemãDecreto de 12 de Março de 1901 (D.G. 59, 1901)CavaleiroVon Funcke, Capitão do 2º Regimento de Infantaria da Guarda do Exército AlemãoDecreto de 17 de Setembro de 1904 (D.G. 214, 1904)CavaleiroPhilippe Lougard, Capitão de Infantaria de Reserva do Exército Alemão, Autoridade Superior Administrativa de SigmaringenCarta Régia de 18 de Maio de 1905 (D.G. 119, 1905)CavaleiroVon Hass, Tenente da Marinha de guerra AlemãDecreto de 10 de Agosto de 1905 (D.G. 183, 1905)CavaleiroKonrad Wagler, Capitão de Infantaria do Exército AlemãoVon Penskoro, Capitão de Infantaria do Exército AlemãoDecreto de 31 de Janeiro de 1906 (D.G. 29 e 43, 1906)CavaleiroH. Köhler, Tenente do Exército AlemãoDecreto de 26 de Abril de 1906 (D.G. 97, 1906)CavaleiroGraf La Rosée, Oficial do Exército da Baviera (Bayern)Decreto de 27 de Junho de 1908 (D.G. 157, 1908)CavaleiroVon Brause, 1º Tenente do 20º Regimento de Infantaria de linha Graf Tauentzein von Wittenberg, do Exército da PrússiaDecreto de 30 de Dezembro de 1908 (D.G. 4, 1909)CavaleiroBronsort Schellendarff, Capitão do Exército alemão e Adido militar de Sua Majestade o Imperador da Alemanha. Edited January 13, 2014 by Rogi
Leutwein Posted January 14, 2014 Posted January 14, 2014 Hello, I hoped that one of these guys: Stiegel, Maquinista da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Grieb, Comissário da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha would be the owner of the mentionend medal bar but nobody of them served in Togo between 1890 and 1894. So no match By the way Stiegel was "Marine-Ingenieur". In 1902 (Marine-Stabsingenieur (Patent: 10th April 1899) he had: RAO4, KO4, PBd´A3 and RSt3 And now? May be an ROA4 instead an AEZ? In that case I researched for those mentioned officers and had the following results: These officers had another combinations of awards: Johannes Hann, Tenente da Marinha de guerra Imperial Alemã Konrad Wilhelm Gustav Herman, Graf Finck von Finckenstein, Capitão do 1º Regimento de Infantaria da Guarda Imperial do Exército Imperial Alemão CavaleiroAdolf von Drebber, Tenente de Artilharia do Exército Imperial Alemão Scheunemann, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Reinhold Fischer, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Stilzel, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Bunnemam, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da AlemanhaRitter von Waechter, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Ritter von Waechter, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Von Bodecker, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Dr. Wentel, Médico da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Pindter, Capitão-Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Wachsmann, Almoxarife Mor da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Graf von Posadowsky, Tenente de 1ª classe da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Mersmann, 1º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Von Hass, Tenente da Marinha de guerra Alemã Bossart, Capitão-Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Friedrich Franz Max Ahlers, Capitão do Regimento de Fuzileiros da Guarda Alemã Von Funcke, Capitão do 2º Regimento de Infantaria da Guarda do Exército Alemão Konrad Wagler, Capitão de Infantaria do Exército Alemão H. Köhler, Tenente do Exército Alemão Von Brause, 1º Tenente do 20º Regimento de Infantaria de linha Graf Tauentzein von Wittenberg, do Exército da Prússia Officers who had RAO4 and PBd´A3 but were not in Togo (so no colonial medal with clasp Togo 1894/95) or couldn´t find the person in the "Rangliste"/ "Marine-Rangliste", "bay. Militärhandbuch 1911" and also not in the "DKB" between 1890 and 1894 (so no participants of the expedition in Togo in 1894/95): Graf von Schönborn-Wiesentheid, Capitão, Ajudante-de-campo do Chanceler Alemão Wilhelm Eugen Joseph Kalm, Capitão do Exército Alemão Richard Hofricter, Capitão do Exército Alemão Joseph Karl Emmanuel Alexander Münstermann, Capitão do Exército Alemão Heinrich Rudolph von Cuckvort, Capitão do Exército Alemão Sterne Walter von Mombary, Capitão do Exército Alemão Otto von Pluskow, Capitão do Exército Alemão Carl von Bodien, Capitão do Exército Alemão Freiherr von Ledebur, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Robertson, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Fritz Schmidt, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Ernst Hoffmam, 2º Tenente da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Dr. Schacht, Médico da Marinha de guerra da Alemanha Von Weise, Capitão do Exército Alemão, Adido Militar da Alemanha em Lisboa Philippe Lougard, Capitão de Infantaria de Reserva do Exército Alemão, Autoridade Superior Administrativa de Sigmaringen Bronsort Schellendarff, Capitão do Exército alemão e Adido militar de Sua Majestade o Imperador da Alemanha. Von Penskoro, Capitão de Infantaria do Exército Alemão Graf La Rosée, Oficial do Exército da Baviera (Bayern) Still no match Is the portuguese order of Aviz replaced??? More questions and no solution We have to know who were the participants of the expedition in Togo in 1894/95. Maybe anyone else has more infos? Best wishes Karsten
Rogi Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Hello Karsten,Thank you so much for looking through the list Is it possible that there could be a combination between any of these in the list that could have accounted for this medal bar?From the information provided, I believe the Avis is a replacement piece for a Kingdom order. This really points the medal bar being made around 1919 or later, when this version of Avis was introduced (assuming we assume the Avis is correct here) If the recipient received the Avis in 1894-1910 then he would have had to switch the Crown Avis with the republic version in the 20s if anything else, to not offend Portugal in the proper procedure for wearing the order.We know that the campaign medal was instituted after 1910s, so the medal bar is either made in 1912 (or sometime there in as Daniel suggested) or in the 1920s ( with the Avis as a replacement)I think if we had a list of these Polizeitruppen (only they were eligible for the 1894/95 clasp) then it would be mystery solved as Karsten suggested It arrived yesterday and I'd like to share the front photo I've taken it is such a beautiful medal bar, you cannot see the true beauty in photos and have to handle one of these pieces up close, new appreciation of these amazing Bars and many Thanks to Captain Albert for being able to purchase this beautiful bar from him Edited January 19, 2014 by Rogi
Rogi Posted August 27, 2014 Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) Sorry to bring up this thread a bit, but any chance of finding the recipient? I have a zilch in luck for searching German records (and probably what info. I do have access to isn't enough)Would anyone be able to suggest a recipient from the list above that may be suitable/ another source to look into?Thank you,Igor :) Edited August 27, 2014 by Rogi
Rogi Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Hmm hate to bring this up again, but would love to find the recipient, got the list, explored some options but nothing seems ok atm. Any ideas fellas? would appreciate your assistance Just a bit more fuel to the info. fire.From the bay on a guide to Togo Clasps, here is the info for the 1894/95 clasp and suggested reading is:Schanz, Moritz West-Afrika (Berlin, 1903). does anyone have this book in their library? The author of the guide wrote:The clasp TOGO 1894/95 was awarded mainly to Togo Police Troops for enforcing the general security of the Togo Hinterland from January 1894 to December 1895. This clasp was awarded only to African Imperial German Colonial Police Troops (mainly Hausas and a few Fanti) but there appears to be a number of Europeans and Africans who were attached. Less than 750 Togo Police Troops were authorized this clasp and possibly half received the TOGO 1894/95 clasp in 1912. A very large number of the recipients of TOGO 1894/95 were also authorized TOGO 1895 Edited June 5, 2015 by Rogi
Rogi Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 I can't post after the quote above, so to sum up, we know that the purchase has to definitely be a Weimer era purchase if what the author of the guide is correct. could be from 1912 onward. He has to be, or have been an African Imperial Colonial Police Troop (Hausas or Fanti, European or possibly African Descent)
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