jcwater Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Against the Chinese government seems to GOOGLE, so in mainland China open GOOGLE not very stable, but I can open it, but its translation at any time is wrong, I can't rely on GOOGLE translation to communicate with you. Will result in the wrong understanding
JapanX Posted June 29, 2012 Posted June 29, 2012 Back to the original piece that was posted by topic starter. If this order/medal was indeed issued by Wang government after 1940, then I simply couldn't understand how 1st Baron Amulree could became it's cavalier! Could you? Cheers, Nick
oamotme Posted June 30, 2012 Author Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) Nick, Good question. As the 1st Lord Amulree died in 1942 it is highly unlikely he receieved this awrd. It was more likely an award bestowed upon his son he 2nd Lord Amulree. He was a Liberal Peer and Whip between 1955 and 1977 and spoke in the House of Lords on a variety of issues in relation to the care of the elderly. Amulree was born at South Kensington, London. Upon graduating from Cambridge Amulree joined theMinistry of Health, initially working on the delivery of cancer services, but left in 1949 to become physician in charge of the geriatric department at Uiversity College Hospital in London. He was governor and president of a number of organisations including the Britsih Geriatric Society, the Society for the Study of Medical Ethics and the Association of Occupational Therapists. He was made KBE in recognition of his service to public health and welfare. He died, unmarried, in 1983 Kind regards, Owain. Edited June 30, 2012 by oamotme
JapanX Posted June 30, 2012 Posted June 30, 2012 Hi Owain, you see, the real problem is that 1st Baron Amulree and 2nd Baron Amulree were Subects of the Crown. If we are talking about 1940-1945 period for this medal, then we have a real problem! How it could be awarded to british cititizen when Japan and GB were in the state of war with each other. Not to mention that (if I remember correctly) in 1943 this puppet Nanking government directly declared war on GB and US Best, Nick
oamotme Posted July 1, 2012 Author Posted July 1, 2012 Nick, A problem indeed. If the period of this award is 1940/45 then you are right it can't have been awarded then. Could it have been kept on as an award by a post 1945 government? Could it be possible that he received it some time between 1945 and 1949 whilst working with the Ministry of Health? Reaching for ideas! Owain
jcwater Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 JapanX 我没看懂你的意思。我想你的意思是不是为什么汪系国民政府的章上面的中国地图会有满洲国的版图吗？ 我的理解是这可能是汪系早期心里不情愿承认满洲国的结果。后来可能迫于压力，这个章以后的版本虽然样式材质一模一样，但取消了红十字背后的地图。确实耐人寻味。当然这只是我自己的见解。因为没有证据表明这种章是北洋时期的（1912～1928）而且～清朝的红十字会章不会叫做中国。
JapanX Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Could it have been kept on as an award by a post 1945 government? Could it be possible that he received it some time between 1945 and 1949 whilst working with the Ministry of Health? I think that probability of such awarding (with collaborator medal) after 1945 is close to zero. That is if this order/medal indeed was issued by Nanking government I believe currently we are left with two options a) this medal doesn't belong to the Baron's group (but frankly I simply couldn't imagine how (and why!) this interesting and eccentric (for british citizen) award was added to this group!) b) this medal was issued before (or after) 1940-1945 period and not by Nanking government By the way, judging by the quality of this piece, it could be issued between 1945 and 1949 ... This is definitely not your usual high-quality Japanese work. Even the form of suspension ball is different Regards, Nick
JapanX Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 JapanX 我没看懂你的意思。我想你的意思是不是为什么汪系国民政府的章上面的中国地图会有满洲国的版图吗？ 我的理解是这可能是汪系早期心里不情愿承认满洲国的结果。后来可能迫于压力，这个章以后的版本虽然样式材质一模一样，但取消了红十字背后的地图。确实耐人寻味。当然这只是我自己的见解。因为没有证据表明这种章是北洋时期的（1912～1928）而且～清朝的红十字会章不会叫做中国。 JC is talking about the medal that was posted in the other thread devoted to Chinese Red Cross medals (medal with Manchu flag on reverse) http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/54899-red-cross-medals-and-orders-of-chinese-republic/page__st__40 He think that this medal was issued by Nanking government too. Manchu flag on reverse was used because Nanking government was reluctant to recognize Manchu as a separate independent state. Well, if it was indeed issued by Nanking government, then why so many differences in obverse design? Not to mention that this puppet government was under complete control of Japanese ... They couldn't even made an extra breath without special permission from "their brothers with liberating mission"... But certainly this is one of the possibilities
oamotme Posted April 12, 2013 Author Posted April 12, 2013 Gentlemen, Paul Wood in his research found that Amulree was a member of a British Parliamentary Delegation to China from September to November 1947 - this information gives the period of the presentation of the award. Can the translation of the reverse be confirmed as "Wang (??) Department of National Government, the Red Cross Badge"? Many thanks, Owain
No one Posted September 21 Posted September 21 (edited) Dear Gentlemen, It's a medal of the Chinese Red Cross Society during the Anti-Japanese War (KMT). "Honorary Member": Picture below courtesy of 珍稀史料-电子期刊第三十七期|红十字运动研究中心 (hszyj.net) See also: 藏品中的红十字 | 抗日战争时期中国红十字会特别会员章 (sohu.com) Yours sincerely, No one Edited September 21 by No one
No one Posted September 21 Posted September 21 Dear Gentlemen, The manufacturing company is "Biāo zhǔn Gōng sī". It made some of the French units insignias stationned in China too, 2ème Bataillon de Marche de Chine, Dumont d'Urville (aviso colonial) etc.. Yours sincerely, No one
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