Jump to content

RUSSIA O.of Saint Wladimir Kerensky Period ?


Veteran
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone

Could this gilt metal 4th Class cross of the Order of Saint Wladimir be one of the post Csarist period ? The enamels look quite good and the arms of the cross are bulbeous. No hallmarks as far as I can see.

Anyone have an idea ? I really wonder how one can tell them.

Best regards

Veteran

Edited by Veteran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello everyone

Could this gilt metal 4th Class cross of the Order of Saint Wladimir be one of the post Csarist period ? The enamels look quite good and the arms of the cross are bulbeous. No hallmarks as far as I can see.

Anyone have an idea ? I really wonder how one can tell them.

Best regards

Veteran

I am surprised it has no marks, normally bronze-gilt pieces are made either by Eduard or Dmitri Osipov. Having never encountered a provisonal government Vladimir I can only base information on other orders and I would suspect that the Imperial crown on the arms would be lacking, also during the Great War late Czarist period production of insignia was changed from gold to gilt bronze. From the information you have given me my suspicion is that it is a European (quite possibly French) made piece, many of which were produced during the latter part of the war when many allied soldiers who were awarded Russian decorations did not receive the award and during the civil war allied intervention.

All the best,

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Paul for this quick and considered information.

I have had this for decades now and strangely a very similar cross with swords was recently sold on eBay. This is why this one came back to my mind.

It does not look truly post-WW1-french, which are usually silver or silver gilt with proper hallmarks. Rather like this Cross of Saint-Georges, with flat enamels not the bulbeous look of the Saint Wladimir cross shown :

But this could nevertheless be the case.

Your help is, as usual, highly appreciated. Thanks again.

Paul

Edited by Veteran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am surprised it has no marks, normally bronze-gilt pieces are made either by Eduard or Dmitri Osipov.

As far as I remember there were Eduard specimens made in bronze without K on lower obverse ray.

Having never encountered a provisonal government Vladimir I can only base information on other orders and I would suspect that the Imperial crown on the arms would be lacking, also during the Great War late Czarist period production of insignia was changed from gold to gilt bronze.

Imperial crowns on the arms survived the democratization process ;)

Regards,

Nick

P.S. "He makes 2 and 2 make 5" .... Synergy?! :lol:

:cheers:

Edited by JapanX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Paul for this quick and considered information.

I have had this for decades now and strangely a very similar cross with swords was recently sold on eBay. This is why this one came back to my mind.

It does not look truly post-WW1-french, which are usually silver or silver gilt with proper hallmarks. Rather like this Cross of Saint-Georges, with flat enamels not the bulbeous look of the Saint Wladimir cross shown :

But this could nevertheless be the case.

Your help is, as usual, highly appreciated. Thanks again.

Paul

No marks again, does not look like a later piece, possibly emigre or civil war and as you are well aware there was a large emigre community in Paris so this could explain it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No marks again, does not look like a later piece, possibly emigre or civil war and as you are well aware there was a large emigre community in Paris so this could explain it

Better photos :whistle:

+

Give me some time and I'll post for you some nice photos of these bronze Vlad's for revolutionaries ;)

Edited by JapanX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your kind attention to this post.

Here is as large a scan as I can manage to produce. The enamel has a "see-through" quality, showing the metal background. This background looks very much like the older crosses made by the Russian jewellers which French makers have not usually tried to produce..

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Veteran

Edited by Veteran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your kind attention to this post.

Here is as large a scan as I can manage to produce. The enamel has a "see-through" quality, showing the metal background. This background looks very much like the older crosses made by the Russian jewellers which French makers have not usually tried to produce..

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Veteran

My suspicion is that this may be a 'White' Civil War period award, the lack of any marks pretty well debars it being a Czarist or Provisional Government, sorry I can't be more precise. Nick may have further ideas.

All the best,

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul

I tend to agree with your suggestion. It makes full sense to me and really puts in better words what I meant by "Kerensky Period".

I hope other members of this forum will be kind enough to express their thoughts about the whole thing.

Thanks again.

Paul

Edited by Veteran
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There were two makers of St. Vladimir Order in bronze during provisional government period.

Dmitry Osipov (only saw without the swords crosses) and Eduard.

Osipov pieces usually bear mark

Edited by JapanX
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...