Sweden SWEDEN ORDER OF THE SWORD - OLD MODEL

[Graf]

Dear Membes,

I recently obtained this old Model of the Sweden Order of the Sword.

My research indicates that the Model could be around 1800 Period

Can you help me to identify the exact period and how rare is this Model

Regards

Graf

Edited September 5, 2012 by Graf

[Graf]

reverse view

[Peter J]

Hi Graf,

That's IMO a very nice cross, probably made in the period 1820-1854 and fairly scarce.

[Graf]

• Hi Peter,
  

Thank you for the comment and the info.

regards

Graf

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Peter

Re the Order of the Sword. Please excuse me but I am a little confused here and wonder if you can help:

The excellent pics posted by Graf appears to show a neck badge of the Order which I see you have dated as circa 1820 to 1854. The thing that puzzles me is the absence of the additional swords and straps at the side and bottom of the cross as I have seen on other examples (photo attached).

Can I ask if this indicates the grade of the Order or is it perhaps another distinction ?

Also I have read several different accounts re the various grades, eg one source (Neville) says there were 3 grades, while Dorling says there were 5 !? and I'm afraid I can't understand the Wikipedia definition.

I wonder if you could clarify the situation for me if you would be so kind. Very many thanks in advance. Jeff

[Peter J]

Hi Jeff,

The cross posted by Graf is for a Knight (Riddare 1.klass) and was worn on the chest. The 2.klass comes in silver with white enamel contrary to the 1.klass in gold. The Sign of the Sword (Svärdstecken) is in silver with only blue enamel in the centre. The Sign of the sword is also found without swords. There is also the Medal of the sword.

The cross posted by you is a Commander (Kommendör) and in conjunction with the breast star Kommendör 1.klass. Commander with Grandcross wore the same sized neck-cross in a sash and the breast star with gold crowns between the cross arms. I hope this will help you out.

[Yankee]

Dear Membes,

I recently obtained this old Model of the Sweden Order of the Sword.

My research indicates that the Model could be around 1800 Period

Can you help me to identify the exact period and how rare is this Model

Regards

Graf

Hi Graf

The early examples from 1800 would usually have the crown attached directly to the Cross. I agree with Peter you have a very fine example from the 2nd quarter 19th century & they are scarce.

[Graf]

Hi Peter and Yankee,

Thank you for the information.

Swedish Orders are my side line of collecting and my knowledge is not very comprehensive.

I recently got the Civil model without the swords, which as far as I know was awarded in the period 1894-1920

I am also adding a picture of the Medal of the Order of the sword to compliment Peter's information

I am also using the opportunity to ask you for information when can I get original sashes for orders of the Vasa and the Order of Polar Star

Best

Graf

[Yankee]

Hi Peter and Yankee,

Thank you for the information.

Swedish Orders are my side line of collecting and my knowledge is not very comprehensive.

I recently got the Civil model without the swords, which as far as I know was awarded in the period 1894-1920

I am also adding a picture of the Medal of the Order of the sword to compliment Peter's information

I am also using the opportunity to ask you for information when can I get original sashes for orders of the Vasa and the Order of Polar Star

Best

Graf

Hi Graf

The Sword is a beautiful Order with a lot of history unfortunately there are no books written in English on the subject to my knowledge. There are many fine books written on the subject but there all in Swedish. The last Kuenker Auction offered a good early section that you should still be able to view online. Nice medal to the order you have, they are more difficult to date.

Sincerely

Yankee

[kimj]

Nice medal to the order you have, they are more difficult to date.

No, they are much easier to date as they have to have silver stamps according to law. Those made before the law can be dated by the style of the crown.

The medal o the pic has a year stamp and the maker MJV stamped on it.

/Kim

[Graf]

Thank you for the information.

I am in a hunt for Knight 2nd Class in Silver.

I have seen different models of this Class

with borders on the arms

without borders on the arms

with gold central medallions

with Silver central medallions

What are the correct features of this Class..or all of the above are correct?

Graf

[Peter J]

Graf, the Knight 2nd class in silver was instituted 1889 and awarded to foreigners only, see attached image (Sign of the Sword for comparison). As a sidenote, a 1st class cross awarded to a foreigner was gilded silver rather than gold from 1926.

[Yankee]

No, they are much easier to date as they have to have silver stamps according to law. Those made before the law can be dated by the style of the crown.

The medal o the pic has a year stamp and the maker MJV stamped on it.

/Kim

Hi Kim

Can you suggest a book that would have good illustrations of the medal to the Sword. I have seen several with large crown, small crown, flat crown, some directly attached & others hinged. Thank you for informing me on the silver marks in order to date them. Any idea the first year they were introduced to the medal?

Sincerely

Yankee

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Peter (and everyone)

Very many thanks indeed for the fantastic array of pics re this splendid award....and what an amazing variety of types there are ! I had no idea that such a diverse range of designs existed and I must thank you all most sincerely for sharing these excellent images on the Forum.

I wonder if I might trouble you with just one further query re this ; Do you know where I might obtain a list of British recipients of this award...particularly those for the Napoleonic Wars era ? Many thanks in advance if you can help. Regards Jeff

Edited December 1, 2014 by Jeff Mc William

[kimj]

Yankee: There are no books (to my knowledge) that deal in the medals variation. Everything I have seen written about it are just the history, this medal is heavily shadowed by the order. Adding to this shadow is the fact that it was only awarded for long service. But I can give a basic idea of the most common models:

Crown mounted with a hinge. This is the first model and used to late 1850-ties. At this time most hinges disappeared from both medals and orders.

Small crown. Used into the reign of Gustaf V. When the change to a larger crown happened is a matter of future research.

Somewhere here is the year stamp introduced by law for medals. I need to dig some to find the exact year, but it's something like 1900-10.

Large crown.

"Modern" crown. King Gustav VI wanted a more modern looking crown and the result was the type as shown here, from about 1950. This was the final type, as the medal stopped being awarded in 1975.

And as a side note I can mention that my own great great grandfather got this medal for his service in the Royal Västmanland regiment for 27 years of service.

As for Napoleonic times I do not know of any published lists. Could be some in private hands as all the records are probably still in the archives. But the time and knowledge to pull them and sort it all out is not done in five minutes.

/Kim

[Yankee]

Yankee: There are no books (to my knowledge) that deal in the medals variation. Everything I have seen written about it are just the history, this medal is heavily shadowed by the order. Adding to this shadow is the fact that it was only awarded for long service. But I can give a basic idea of the most common models:

Crown mounted with a hinge. This is the first model and used to late 1850-ties. At this time most hinges disappeared from both medals and orders.

Small crown. Used into the reign of Gustaf V. When the change to a larger crown happened is a matter of future research.

Somewhere here is the year stamp introduced by law for medals. I need to dig some to find the exact year, but it's something like 1900-10.

Large crown.

"Modern" crown. King Gustav VI wanted a more modern looking crown and the result was the type as shown here, from about 1950. This was the final type, as the medal stopped being awarded in 1975.

And as a side note I can mention that my own great great grandfather got this medal for his service in the Royal Västmanland regiment for 27 years of service.

As for Napoleonic times I do not know of any published lists. Could be some in private hands as all the records are probably still in the archives. But the time and knowledge to pull them and sort it all out is not done in five minutes.

/Kim

Hi Kim

Many kind thanks for explaining in detail the differences that we come across over the medal to the Sword in its time frame. What would be the length of time for a soldier to receive the medal or better yet how long did your Great Great Grandfather need to serve before he recived his medal . Was it strictly a one class medal in size & only a silver grade or was it like the Vasa? Thanks

Sincerely

Yankee

[Peter J]

The Medal of the Sword (instituted 1850) came in silver and one size only (30mm). The criterias for the Medal was 16 years of service and the same for the Sign of the Sword (including 6 years as an NCO).

Kim, do you have any illustration of the hinged version? Can't recall having seen one.

[Yankee]

The Medal of the Sword (instituted 1850) came in silver and one size only (30mm). The criterias for the Medal was 16 years of service and the same for the Sign of the Sword (including 6 years as an NCO).

Kim, do you have any illustration of the hinged version? Can't recall having seen one.

Thanks Peter for that helpful info. In the fotos & catalogs they look larger. I must admit only once or twice did I ever see a Sword medal that was hinged, never occured to me just how rare they are. BTW thanks for sharing your cool Sword collection

Sincerely

Yankee

[Yankee]

A fine Napoleonic piece with an arched crown and solid crowns between each arm.

Maybe of German make, never seen another...........

[kimj]

Peter is right about the years of service. I don't think that ever changed much. Back then the soldiers profession was for life so many had a lot of years of service. The record being something like 50+ years.

Here is a pic of one that sold this year, not sure about the ribbon - looks too fresh. They go for a bit more than the "normal" types, but not much. I didn't bid on this one because of the bad strike

PS Nice medals Peter! I really need to get me a nice medal to honor my great great grandfather distinktionskorpral Lyckman.

/Kim

[Yankee]

Peter is right about the years of service. I don't think that ever changed much. Back then the soldiers profession was for life so many had a lot of years of service. The record being something like 50+ years.

Here is a pic of one that sold this year, not sure about the ribbon - looks too fresh. They go for a bit more than the "normal" types, but not much. I didn't bid on this one because of the bad strike

PS Nice medals Peter! I really need to get me a nice medal to honor my great great grandfather distinktionskorpral Lyckman.

/Kim

That is one proudly worn medal. Hope the guy who got his for 50 years was in gold or some sort of special presentation.

[Graf]

This is my latest Order of the Sword

As far as my knowledge goes it is 1850 Model

Any more info?

[Graf]

I finally got this old  model

It is very interesting double sided swords model

Here are some pictures to compare

[Megan]

Beautiful, thanks for sharing!

[Graf]

Hi Megan

Thank you

I will appreciate any info regarding the date of this latest addition with double sided swords

As i mentioned my information is that it dates 1850-60 i have seen one for sale  The seller name is Tim