Bundesrepublik 57 Pilots Badge

[U Boot Kapitan]

Hello All,
What are your opinions as to the manufacture date of this badge?

Edited February 6, 2013 by Nick

[U Boot Kapitan]

[SteveL]

Sorry to say but it is a fake.....modern made, and yes although conforming to 57' regulations as to design, there are now fakes being made in China and Canada, and no doubt Germany... it is not what collectors wish to include in their collections, all modern/late made 57er's are/were made by the German firm of "Steinhauer und Luck", whose trademark on their pieces is a bevelled edge around the inside of the wreath....it is not there on this piece...the crude engraving has been done both to enhance its value and desirability !

Prost ! Steve.

Edited October 15, 2012 by SteveL

[Gordon Craig]

Steve,

Interesting comments. I have never collected 57 type pieces actively, although I have a few pieces, and was not aware of the fakes that you mentioned. Very good to know. I did note the poor quality of the piece but there is a lot of talk on different forums about the poor quality of the later made pieces and I thought that the poor quality here might be attributed to that. I know that on early pieces made by S&L, they marked the case on bottom with their name. Did they also mark the cases on the later made pieces?

Regards,

Gordon

[SteveL]

Gordon, as far as I am aware, there were no marking of boxes or of awards, other than the wartime "4" (St u L) marking on left over WW2 parts such as the suspension ring (on very early EK II's) Deumers L/11 & "3" also being used, until stocks ran out and new parts were supplied/made (with no markings)....if 57er boxes are mm then I assume left over WW2 stock, or reproduction, in the late 50's & throughout the 60's St u L pieces were, but not all, marked with a small "o" it is not known the meaning of this mark (other than it being attributed to St u L) I have a late RK with box, no markings, other than "800" (silver content) on the cross.

Prost ! Steve.

[SteveL]

Gentlemen, with reference to 1957 awards....the Federal regulations state/set out a criteria of design and construction, they were then made by various medal makers of old in Germany...they were never re-awarded but were purchased by a veteran, on production of proof of winning the award, i.e. certificate/soldbuch, but literal translation of the regulations meant that any piece/award constructed to the designs set out in that law were 1957 awards ! even if manufactured in a tool shed in China ! However, collectors view the awards made in Germany as legitimate 57 pieces, especially the early versions....details on the awards can identify known makers, such as St u L, Junkers, Deumer, Deschler etc.......by the late 1960's only St u L were left as sole producers of these awards...and continue right up to today offering awards to the collector, these pieces are generally inferior to their earlier brothers...because of demand, the reproducers have got in on the act, replicas/repros what ever you wish to call them are now made worldwide....from Canada to China !

Prost ! Steve.

[speedytop]

Hi Steve,

"... they ... were purchased by a veteran, on production of proof of winning the award, i.e. certificate/soldbuch"

Everybody could/can produce such pieces, everybody could/can buy such pieces, without any legitimation.

A legitimation was only necessary for the wear of the decorations.

Uwe

[SteveL]

Hi Steve, "... they ... were purchased by a veteran, on production of proof of winning the award, i.e. certificate/soldbuch" Everybody could/can produce such pieces, everybody could/can buy such pieces, without any legitimation. A legitimation was only necessary for the wear of the decorations. Uwe

Hi Uwe...your above statement is quite true,in the post I generalised, as to keep the it to a minimum, sorry....I have heard many stories of people trying to buy 57er's from shops in Germany, but being refused as they could not produce any confirmation of the award they wished to purchase....I guess unofficially some shop owners tried to regulate the flow !

Prost ! Steve.

[SteveL]

To compare here is my recently obtained early "Flugzeugfuhrerabzeichen" 1957-60 period.....St u L made piece.

Prost ! Steve.

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