Metropolitan Police 1887 Jubilee Medals to Metropolitan Police

[Odin Mk 3]

In response to the above requests the book is:

The Metropolitan Police, The Men and their Medals compiled by JHF Kemp

I had it privately printed so copies are only available directly from myself

The current cost to GMIC members is £25 + P&P (which is now an extra £7.50 as it is quite heavy)

It covers 1887 -1911 Jubilee and Coronation Medals to Met Offciers who joined the force after 1879.

For more details see http://jhfk.com/pdf/book.pdf

If members are interested then please send me a personal message

[Guest pikemedals]

i just like to say i purchase this book about a 2 years ago. it worth every penny.make life so easy looking up a officer.mr kemp has lay out this book very well give you warrant number,date of joined & division,named the division for the 1897 clasp,ranks & divisions on the medals helpful if missing a medal from a group. and much more info. if the buy metropolitan police medals you must have this book !.paul

[Monty]

I think that's my Birthday present sorted Jim.

Monty

:)

[Mervyn Mitton]

Paul or, Monty. Would one of you please review the book and do a report in our new books section - some where below

the Lounge. We must always support our own members. Mervyn

[Monty]

It shall be my pleasure Mervyn,

However it shall not be until after March, as that is my Birthday month.

Monty

:)

[The Holyboy]

Hi Monty

I have seen Met groups with all ranks wearing the 87 and 97 medals. I don't think the photos were mandatory but there would be orders given for dress such as 'medals will be worn' dress on certain occasions such as special parades, presentations etc when the photos would be taken.

[nottingdale]

This is my first post so I am starting more or less from square one. Some time ago on the death of my grandmother I inherited my great grandfathers Indian GS Medal with a Burma clasp. After leaving the Army he joined the Met at Bethnal Green in 1888. He did move about a bit & I have seen several station photos & one way to identify him may be to identify his medal ribbons thus I am interested to know if he would have been entitled to any Police Medals in addition to his GS medal and if so what they would look like.

Joseph Davies

Height 5'-10'

B 7-5-1862 St Martin Shropshire.

Joined at Bethnal Green

R. 16/10/1888-1/10/1913

Met Police Rec

Warrant No 73235.

Left as PC. B-322 from Chelsea Div.

Then going to the next step !

I have some of his residential adressess locations (from rate books & the like) so did the Met have a rule about the distance from residence to station?

Any help would be most appreciated

[219PG]

Nottingdale

As you say your Great Grandfather was first stationed on J Division ( Bethnal Green) - he received the 1897 Jubilee medal while stationed on F Div (Paddington) - 1902 Coronation medal while stationed on F Div (Paddington) and 1911 Coronation medal. Left service while stationed B Div (Chelsea). Info from 'The Metropolitan Police the mean & their medals Vol 1 by J H F Kemp'.

Single constables sometimes lived at section houses based at police stations or boarded at local lodgings (sometimes with married constables) - when married they usually lived on or not far from their Division.

As you have your Great Grandfathers army number & Met Police warrant number you will be able to do a great deal of research through the National archives - National census - Ancestry etc.

Have you any photographs of the old boy to share with us ?

[Odin Mk 3]

Apart from the info above I can tell you

When he joined his Divisional Number (ie on his collar / helmet) was 387J. His number later changed to 121J before he left J Div.

On the 1st March 1892 he transferred to F Div (with the number 225F)

On 12th March 1904 he became part of F Division Mobile Reserve and would not have normally patrolled a beat. His number changed to 20FR

I can't tell you when he transferred to B Div but his number when he retired was definitely 322B

Unfortunately there will be no service sheet for him (joined too early for those) but there will be an entry in the Attestation and Discharge Registers plus a pension record for him. The latter will give a brief summary of his career.

[Odin Mk 3]

Below is the Attestation Register entry with his signature

[Odin Mk 3]

And here is the Discharge Register entry - a Class 1 certificate = excellent

The man at the top of the page was RP (Resignation Permitted) which means if he hadn't resigned he would have been sacked

I'm afraid the pension records require a trip to the National Archives at Kew

Edited April 7, 2013 by Odin Mk 3

[nottingdale]

Thank you both very much for the info.

I find it mind blowing that I can trace a young 16 year old farm hand from a small village in Mid Wales across the world to India then over the mountains of Afghanistan (where our boys are now) back into India and then through Burma & up the Irrawaddy to take Upper Burma from a despot king. Then literally through the streets of London on an almost daily basis. Most of it over 100 years ago!

Just after I posted I stumbled on the Kemp reference you mentioned. I wonder what happened to his other decorations.

I am certain he is in one of the photos I was shown at the Met museum, but at that time I did not know much about him and I was just about to leave for Burma so that was the priority at the time.

His Met enrolment gave me his RA details to follow up. So with this new info I should be able to go back to London and find an identifiable pic of him, which I will post.

But one thing I am a little confused about is that according to official documents he joined the Met in October 88, but he was not discharged from the RA until Oct 90. The last item on his Army Form B206 states:-

“Enlisted for Section “D”on 20/10/90 for four years from 23/10 90."

Can you put any light on this apparent cross over.

It was always family belief that he was stationed at Notting Dale Station (a very rough slum area up until the 1960’s). but I have not seen this station mentioned on any posts. Would it have come under one of the other Divisions?

[219PG]

Think this photo answers your question about what Division Notting Dale was in. As regards joining the Met in 1888 but still being shown as RA until 1990 - maybe kept on reserve list ?

[Mervyn Mitton]

Nottingdale - welcome to GMIC - we prefer first names, more friendly - but, obviously is optional.

The amount of info. that has been found for you is great. I served at Bethnal Green, but it had come under 'H' Division at that time.

Your Great Grandfather's warrant number was 73235 - so, he was that far in numbers from the 1st Police officer to march out in 1829.

My number was 158277 in 1967 - 79 years down the line from him. The numbers must be well into the 200,000's by now. Mervyn

[nemic]

Hello, I am new to this site so hope I am in the right place and not wasting everybody's time. My interest was aroused by the discussions around the Jubilee medal of 1887. My family history enquiries have uncovered the fact that my Great Grandfather was in the Metropolitan Police 1885 to 1889. His name was George Enticknap and I think he was in J Division, though this is from memory as I have unfortunately lost my research notes. Would he have been awarded the Jubilee

medal just for serving or was it for acts of valour or something similar?

I thinkhe resigned in 1889. Was this a euphamism for being sacked? How might I find out more about this period of his life. Any information would be gratefully received, or perhaps redirect me to other sources. I have photos of his wife and children but regrettably none of him. Any chance of a photo in the police archives? The idea that he was active during the Jack the Ripper period is intriguing but I'll probably

never know the extent of this.

[Tom King]

No photos in the police archives for individuals although many had private photos taken. George joined 06/04/85 resigned 26/03/88 entitled to the 1887 Jubilee medal a PC on N Division. He resigned of his own accord.

I see that there is also a Charles Enticknap with such an unusual name he must be related he served 1887 to 1913

[nemic]

Thanks for this info. I got his Division and leaving date wrong so no JTR connection probably. I'll look into Charles Enticknap but I do not think he's from my family. Not such an uncommon name, plenty of them in Surrey and Sussex. Onc e again, many thanks.

[Deelibob]

Thankyou Odin - that list will be a helpful reminder . I will ask Brian if he agrees with Pinning-it ?

Have any of you noticed the Picture with Holyboy's (Neil) Avatar. ********** Full marks to the first reply that can tell us what it is showing +

the date + where did it appear + and in which of the above Divs. did it take place ?

Since joining this excellent site I have spent hours trying to figure out Holyboys Avatar. I think it is a depiction of the First German Zeppelin (L15) destroyed over London on 3:4:1916 or possibly the later one shot down by Lt .L. Robinson VC. Alas I do not know the Division. Any marks for me ? or am I way off and it is indeed a Tattooed Bald head as avowed by my Grandson.

[mariner]

Morning Gents,

If I maybe so bold as to reactivate this thread and jump on the band wagon.

Can anyone help me out with PC F James G Division, I believe he was only entitled to the 1887 Jubilee medal.

I suspect that his first name might have been Forbes and that he was stationed in Shoreditch in 1881? Can anyone confirm this for me?

[Odin Mk 3]

I believe your man may be Warrant Number 48860 Frederick James who joined 16/09/1867 and left 30/04/1894.  At that time he was serving in G Div.  I have looked out the discharge register entry for him - he got a Class 2 Certificate of Conduct = Very Good

G Division = Finsbury

The final piece of information I have is that his collar number when he left (pensioned) was 262G

Edited October 21, 2015 by Odin Mk 3

[mariner]

Many thanks Odin!! So we know he served 27 years, the last 7 would appear to been with G, if we assume this from his 1887 medal and pension date. Think I may have found him on the 1891 census, living in Holbon. However, I can't seem to find him on the 1871 or 1881, as none of the D.O.Bs tally up? Anyway assuming that I've got the right guy on the 1891 census, has anyone any idea which station he may have worked from? Which G Division stations are where near Holbon in 1891?

[Odin Mk 3]

There were three Police Stations in G Division (each was classed as a Sub Divisional Station which was run by a Sub Divisional Inspector who was a higher grade than an Inspector - above them were one Supt and one Chief Inspector for the whole Division).

The stations were (in 1882 and 1895):

King's Cross Road, Clerkenwell

Old Street, St Luke's

Kingsland Road, Hoxton

Physically the nearest Police Station in G Div to Holborn was King's Cross Road

The best way to find out which station he was based at would be to find some weekly pay lists which show which station each officer was based at.  Unfortunately there are only a few samples in The National Archives covering one week in April 1891 - these show Y Div (Highgate), 4th Div (Chatham & Sheerness Dockyards) and 5th Div (Pembroke Dockyard).  There must be more somewhere but I've never found them yet.  I found four men on that 4th Div pay list whose medals I have, including a Ch Insp (who was based at Sheerness).

Edited October 22, 2015 by Odin Mk 3

[mariner]

Many thanks again Odin, for this very interesting information. Such a shame that the pay rolls have been lost!! Hopefully the guy I've found on the census will be the right one, so at least I'll have an address for him. Just out of interest, do you know how many section houses G Division had? I believe that had one which was in fact on H Division? I assume there wasn't one in Holbon? I wonder was my guy in fact married? I'll keep digging....

[Odin Mk 3]

No sorry I don't know where the section houses were but occasionally I have found one when looking for a PC on the census and note there is a group of Met Police all living in the same place.  But it is possible that section houses near the boundaries of two divisions may well have had officers from more than one division billeted there.

You also sometimes find some section houses were attached to Police Stations as the inhabitants shown on the census also can include prisoners held in the cells.

I suspect you have the right man a there weren't many F James's in the Met Police, only one other around 1891 so I think you probably have found your man.

Please note that in 1902 a Pensioner called Frederick James re-joined for the 1902 Coronation and probably got the 1902 Medal.  More importantly he went to G Div - so I suspect it was your man.  Note no PC Frederick James re-joined for the 1897 Jubilee.   

[mariner]

Odin, that is interesting many thanks indeed!!!!!!!!!

 

Do you think it's likely that he served his entire service in G Division? Is there anyway of confirming this?

Edited October 23, 2015 by mariner