Medal Bar Reconstruction Project Prussian/Württemberg Mixed- HELP needed Please

[Paul R]

Good morning,

I want to finally start work on the reconstruction of this bar. Do you all have any sources for these missing pendants? Is that listing on the back of the bar accurate? Some of these items I have no idea what the pendents looking like. How difficult are they going to be to find? I know that the Centenial Medal and EK2 will be pretty easy, but what about the rest?

Thank you all for your time and help.

Regards

Paul

[Paul C]

The listing looks accurate and I think the replacement medals are not hard to find or expensive. I would start with German ebay.

[Paul R]

Thanks Paul. Other than the two I listed, I do not even know that they look like. I know that there are tons of medals with the same ribbons and also certain variations and etc which would not be accurate on this bar.

[Paul R]

For example, which long service medals would you place onto this bar? What prices should I expect to pay for each?

[Guest Rick Research]

Nifty bar, but going to be tough figuring out what went where without... trying to fit them on. Start with that iron Cross, and once you've got a "bottom" line all the others should align with that... and whatever suspensions are above. Almost looks like the Wtbg Crown ORDER in there, but the Merit Crosses suggest a Warrant Officer type....

you still out in the Pacific on USCG Behemoth?

[Paul R]

Thanks Rick. I just transferred off of the ship. I am now stationed on land, in the great Republic of Texas. It is great to see you RIck!!! I missed ya.

[Paul R]

The only Wurttenburg Crown Order I have been able to find looks like it is a neck order. How difficult are these to find?

Also, the second ribbon, which is most applicable? Wilhelmskreuz(if so, which class) or the Charlottenkreuz

[redeagleorder]

Ribbon is wrong for a Charlottenkreuz, so probably a Wilhemskreuz. I would venture to say one with swords, but i'm not 100% sure.

[dedehansen]

Thanks Paul. Other than the two I listed, I do not even know that they look like. I know that there are tons of medals with the same ribbons and also certain variations and etc which would not be accurate on this bar.

Hallo Paul,

I want to make a proposal . I think the medal bar belonged to an

well decorated senior NCO and I´d like to show You two medal bars

with Württemberg decoration.

The first is the bar from App Feldwebel - Sergeant at the

Schloßgarde Kompanie Stuttgart.

Bar numer two is an prussian soldier but on the second position from left You

can find the decoration which is missing on Your bar in third position from left.

Sorry my english is not good enough for the rest. The cross is the Verdienstkreuz

mit Schwertern from Württemberg und durch die Wicklung der Bänder an der Spange

kann man die zwei Streifen die auch zum Band gehören leider nicht sehen. Please

someone can translate this in english ?!

Regards

Andreas

[Paul R]

Andreas,

Thank you for posting these beautiful bars. I am sure that there were not too many NCOs that received the NonCombatant EK2, so it may be possible to narrow down the identity of this man?

On the top bar, second medal from the left... is that pendant gold or silver?(Crown Order)

Your English is perfect. Thank you.

[dedehansen]

Thanks Paul,

this is the so - called Goldene Verdienstmedaille des Ordens ( Orden der württembergischen Krone )

OEK - Number 2942 from the Catalog from Jörg Nimmergut. Genuine gold an the current catalog price

is approximately 1.000 €.

Regards

Andreas

[Paul R]

Thanks Andreas! 1000 Euro! That sounds like the Goldene Verdienstmedaille des Ordensis going to be the big fish there. I bet that not many of these were awarded. Is this like the Prussian General Service Medal for award criteria?

Rick

I do have an extra EK 2 that I will put onto the bar. I will take a pic to show how it it sits on the bar.

Regards

Paul

[Guest Rick Research]

I haen't been able to turn anybody up, so must agree this was probably a senior NCO type military Beamter in some sort of War Ministry posting.

Problem is, Württemberg was INSANE about returning awards when a "higher" (even DIFFERENT award) replaced a "lower" and I can't find somebody ALLOWED to KEEP both a Wihlemskreuz and a Verdienstkreuz for the war. Almost certinly Xs on both.

The two long services are also a mystery, since only an LD2 could be worn with an active duty 25. Unless he was being naughty 1920+....

This guy WILL turn up. Just haven't found him yet.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Rick Research

[redeagleorder]

Hi Paul,

You mention that you do not know what some of the awards look like... I'll try post some pictures for you (although be warned, Wurttemberg is not my strong point). Perhaps even if i get some of them wrong they will serve to highlight the right one

I won't insult your intelligence by showing you an iron cross.....

So, moving on to the second ribbon, I think its for a Wilhelmskreuz with swords. While swords normally indicate a combatant award, which this man was not, this cross was awarded with swords to members of the armed forces, not for combat.

[redeagleorder]

The third medal could be one of two (as there is an another ribbon like it). Going by that list, however, i would suggest the Silberne Verdienst-Medaille Konig Wilhelm II, instituted in 1892. The obverse looks like the WW1 bravery medal, but the reverse is significantly different... (credit to ehrenzeichen-orden.de for the picture)

[Paul R]

Hello,

No worries... when it comes to Imperial, you will not insult my intelligence. I had rather see something I may know than to make a mistake. I have seen the Silberne Verdienst-Medaille Konig Wilhelm II, These do not seem to be too rare. That is a good start.

[redeagleorder]

The Goldene Verdienstmedaille I do not know too much about, except that you already seem to have its ribbon ring. Wurttemberg liked to issue medals in solid gold, and this is not an exception as has already been pointed out. However, it appears there are silver-gilt versions (probably post-war replacements). (credit to ehrenzeichen-orden.de for the picture)

[redeagleorder]

The Silberne verdienstkreuz is probably in the next position. Judging by its location on the bar, I would say it is a pre-war no swords award, but if anyone has another opinion please say so as I am not 100% sure...

[dedehansen]

The third medal could be one of two (as there is an another ribbon like it). Going by that list, however, i would suggest the Silberne Verdienst-Medaille Konig Wilhelm II, instituted in 1892. The obverse looks like the WW1 bravery medal, but the reverse is significantly different... (credit to ehrenzeichen-orden.de for the picture)

Sorry, this can´t be the medal on the third place, it´s rather the medal on the 5th place.

The medal on the 3rd place has a higher priority, please have a look on my medal bar from App

Edited June 25, 2013 by dedehansen

[redeagleorder]

I'm thinking an LD2 and a 21 years service cross for sixth and seventh place respectively. I think I can see some trace of a small round medal on the sixth place ribbon, as there is a less-faded spot. Once again, these are not my strong point.

LD2:

21 Years service cross:

[redeagleorder]

To conclude, I've been trying to use the list on the back in order to help find the correct medals. If anyone disagrees please post your own opinions, as as I have already stated Wurttemberg is not my strong point. Now, I have said I used the list, but (and this seems even to me to be irrational), the last place does not look like a centennial medal when one judges it from the height. The ribbon is far too low, especially for such a massive medal as the centennial. Perhaps a tailor error? The medal certainly makes sense on every other count, and the only wurttemberg award that has a matching ribbon was given out too early for this man. Another possibility is perhaps a prinzengrosse?

Regards,

Matthew

[Guest Rick Research]

You're right there, I think. Too big and too heavy, so he went with an 1897 better "fitted" to the size of his other awards.

[Paul R]

Matthew! Thank you so much. I really appreciate the images. They do help a lot. Most likely, I will need to get the gilt silver version of the Crown Order if it is an original. I am sure that it will be much less expensive than the solid gold version.

[dedehansen]

Hello Paul,

the medal from the crown order didn´t exist as silver gilded version. I think that Matthew

is thinking on the württembergische goldene Militärverdienstmedaille, there are many

silver gilded fakes arround, as genuine these have to be almost 333 gold.

The yellow ribbon on this bar does not belong to the Centenarmedaille, I think it´s the

Verdienstmedaille von Baden, please have a look on the bar from App.I´m not sure

if it has to be the Medal from Friedrich I ( like App ) or the later model under Friedrich !!.

Regards

Andreas

[Paul R]

I am rounding up medals now... Just clarifying.  The Wilhelms Cross- is this with or without swords?