KIMKAN Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 Dear all, The Double Dragon of Generalmajor Hoepfner looks very much like the one that will be sold by Spink this coming Thursday, i.e certainly a Russian-made transitional type. Those made by Godet of Berlin look quite different. It is quite interesting to see a high-ranking German officer wearing a Chinese order made in another country. Shall we conclude that these ODD transitional stars were not available at that time from German houses ? No doubt he would have worn a German-made star had it be available on the local "market". Reagrds to all. KimKan
Rogi Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Dear all, The Double Dragon of Generalmajor Hoepfner looks very much like the one that will be sold by Spink this coming Thursday, i.e certainly a Russian-made transitional type. Those made by Godet of Berlin look quite different. It is quite interesting to see a high-ranking German officer wearing a Chinese order made in another country. Shall we conclude that these ODD transitional stars were not available at that time from German houses ? No doubt he would have worn a German-made star had it be available on the local "market". Reagrds to all. KimKanCould it be that he was posted in Russia and picked up the Dragon or was awarded it there? Edited July 20, 2014 by Rogi
drclaw Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 With the exception of the Godet specimens attributed to Prince Chun's visit in 1901, most if not all of the First Type breast stars appear to be Russian made with at least two makers identified so far: Feodor Ruckert and Bogdanov. According to Wiki, Feodor Ruckert "Worked with Carl Fabergé from 1887. His mark Ф.Р. (F.R. in Russian Cyrillic) can be found on cloisonné enamel objects made in Moscow, sold independently or by Fabergé." Nick - would you have any more information about Mikhail Bogdanov, other than that he won an Oscar for Best Foreign Film (War and Peace)?
KIMKAN Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Dear all, A good source of information in English is the booklet written by Gustav A. Tammann in 1993 and published by Spink of London. It is called "Imperial Russian Maker's Marks on Orders and Decorations". Page 19, Quote : "Bogdanov, Mikhail Ivanovich, born in 1886, owner of a workshop in St. Petersburg for gilt and silver objects from 1882 to 1912. Many of the insignia of the transitional (1898-1902) and second (1902-1911) type of the Imperial Order of the Double Dragon of China carry the assay office mark of St. Petersburg, but no maker's mark. It is possible that he made many of them. His mark was MB (Source Postnikova-Loseva)." Unquote. It is interesting to note that Gustav A. Tammann picks the dates 1898-1902 as those pertaining to the transitional type and 1902 as that of the beginning of the second and final type. Furthermore, no other Russian maker is listed in his book with respect to Chinese orders. No mention of Feodor Ruckert for instance. Additional research has been conducted since and new light has been shed on interesting discoveries. However, this booklet is definitely a "must have" for those who do not have any command of the Russian language. I am convinced that a fantastic documentation must be available in Russia these days. Regards, KimKan
JapanX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Posted July 22, 2014 According to Wiki, Feodor Ruckert "Worked with Carl Fabergé from 1887. His mark Ф.Р. (F.R. in Russian Cyrillic) can be found on cloisonné enamel objects made in Moscow, sold independently or by Fabergé." Wiki? After this thread http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/54405-unknown-russian-mark-order-of-the-double-dragon/ Seriously?
JapanX Posted July 22, 2014 Author Posted July 22, 2014 Nick - would you have any more information about Mikhail Bogdanov, other than that he won an Oscar for Best Foreign Film (War and Peace)? Only this БОГДАНОВ Михаил Иванович, крестьянин Новгородской губ., (р. 1866 г.) владелец мастерской золотых и серебряных изделий : 1892–1912 гг. В 1892 г. получил диплом подмастерья. Adresses 1895–1900 З. и С., Гороховая, 34 — 31, 1912 ю.: Никол, 26, 1915–1916: Разъезжая, 12–18. Mark МБ or МБ in rectangle
drclaw Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Thanks KimKan and Nick for the information. The Memorandum for Amending the Double Dragon, dated 1897, proposed the adoption of breast stars so the First Type transitional breast stars likely dated after this time. Interestingly, many of the details contained in the 1897 regulations can be seen in the post 1902 Second Type Double Dragons. At the same time, there are a number of major differences too, e.g. the 1897 regulations specify that the star corpus of the Third Class should have green enamelled rays. We've seen these in transitional Third Class stars.
JapanX Posted August 15, 2014 Author Posted August 15, 2014 Not really german, but pretty close General der Infanterie Michael Vorner (Vienna, 1916)
Glenn J Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Nick, General der Infanterie Michael Vorner (Vienna, 1916) amazingly, "just" a colonel: Oberst Michael v. Vorner. Regards Glenn
JapanX Posted August 15, 2014 Author Posted August 15, 2014 Hi Glenn! I was under the impression that gold embroidery with three stars = general Oberst had silver embroidery. No? Regards, Nick
Glenn J Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Oberst had silver embroidery Nick, Could be gold or silver depending on regiment or branch. Michael Vorner was a General Staff Oberst promoted to that rank on 1 May 1915. Regards Glenn
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