Marcin L Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Dear Fellow members, I would like to describe an EK citation for a Gefreiten of Niederschlesisches Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr. 5. He belonged to 3 kompagnie (so I guess, to the II bataillon). However, I am a bit confused when it comes to assigning the unit to right division / corps. The document itself was signed by Major of this regiment, but what I can see on the document is also a "d. Kommandierende General d. XVII Reservekorps" (printed). I checked with Ruhmeshalle (page 479 in my edition) and it seems that the II bataillon was assigned to 26 Infanterie Division. But what about other bataillons of this regiment? Second - I also checked with Histories of 251 divisions... and it seems that the FussArtRgt5 was attached to 26 Infanterie Division in 1918. My document was signed in 22 August 1917 (but for battle/other event that took place 2 June 1917), so I would like to know what happened before 1918. Would you please clarify the above? Kind regards and thank you. Marcin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Foot artillery batterie were not normally assigned by complete battalions, as existed before the war. They were split up into bizarre and often temporary "combined" units, with the batteries having no relationship to pre-war assignments. Foot artillery were also normally "permanently" assigned to sectors at Corps level, because they were supposed to know every single meter of the enemy's front for counter-battery suppression and to have targets permanently zeroed in if the enemy attacked. So THAT battery... in whatever "higher" composite battalion it served, was at the direct control of the Corps. Post the document and the Major commanding may prove interesting. The "regiment" probably bore little internal organization to what it had been in 1914. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 As Ricky points out, Fußartillerie units were notorious for changing higher headquarters; so, tracing a regiment or battalion's movements during the war can be tricky. Believe me, I've tried. A document like your's is only one part of the puzzle. For what it's worth, at mobilization in 1914, FußAR5 was garrisoned in Posen, part of V. AK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcin L Posted August 2, 2013 Author Share Posted August 2, 2013 Hi, thank you both for your help. Of course I have all the pre-war details available in Ruhmeshalle and 251 Divisions. I will do more research on this as I want to put it on my website with other docs. If you have time and you want - please see my other docs that I published on my website (link below) and feel free to comment / add any new info. That would be highly appreciated. Here is the doc: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 God alone knows what that scribble is! Even "1815-1939" could not identify the wartime commanders of Fußart Rgt 5 by dates... and nothing that looks like whoever that major was. Basically the "regiments" were staffs, which had odd mixed batteries under them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Well, during the war the single bataillons were under different commands. In peace the Fußart.Rgt.5 belonged to the V.AK (Posen). By outbreak of war the regiment was divided in: Staff - 5.Army I.Btl. (schwere Feldhaubitze) - V.AK II.Btl. (schwere Feldhaubitze) -XX.AK For 1918 I have the following commands: Staff - 2.Army I.Btl. (1., 2., 3. battery) - 5.Army II.Btl. (5., 6., 13. battery) - 26.Inf.Div. III.Btl. (9. 10., 11. battery) - 5.Army I´m still looking for further informations about the times between 1914 and 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Hello everyone. Before us is an officer from Niederschlesisches Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr. 5. EKII 1870, RAO4, Kronenorden 3, 25Jahr., Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870/71 + WEISSENBURG, WORTH, SEDAN, MONT VALERIEN, PARIS. Once we discussed with you a photo portrait of a major from Niederschlesisches Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr. 5 Specialists saids there was another officer who had the same list of awards: "1. Artillerie-Offizier von Platz in Posen, Oberstleutnant Otto Kühling who was à la suite of Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr. 5 and had exactly the same decorations" You objected to him and argued that "Oberstleutnant Otto Kühling who was à la suite of Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr. 5 in 70/71 he served with Feldart. Rgt. 3. That regiment fought neither in Weißenburg, nor Sedan, nor Wörth, nor Mt. Valérien, so he couldn´t have those battle clasps. The only match is Paris (21.9.-25.10.1870) " Then we concluded that the portrait depicts Albert Karl Nast - commander Niederschlesisches Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr. 5. This conclusion was made on the basis that: (1870-71) Nast received the EKII in Feldart.Rgt.5. Feldart.Rgt.5 fought in Weißenburg, Wörth, Marsal, Stonne, Frénois, Sedan, Mont Mesly, Dannemois, Petit-Bicêtre, Paris, Mery, La Malmaison, Fellers, Yevres, Loigny-Poupry, Orléans, Marchenoir, Beaugency-Cravant, La Fourche, Le Mans, Mont Valérien. So his clsaps are all right! WEISSENBURG, WORTH, SEDAN, MONT VALERIEN, PARIS. In the ranklist 70/71 Nast was Seconde-Lieutenant in 5.Artillery-Brigade (Festungs-Artillerie-Regiment 5) However, now it turns out that in the photo (Possibly) Oberst Lieutenant Schultz, who was commander in 1897, and had the same list of awards. Major Nast did not have the Order of the Crown of the 3rd class, he received it only as an Oberst-Lieutenant. One more moment, we all thought that the major was in the photo. However, if you look closely, I think there is a star right under the number 5. I found Schultz in the 5th Artillery Brigade in 1870-71. He was in battery 5 heavy. And I also got EK2. Can you tell me where Schultz's battery was besieging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) Hello! Schultz was commander of Fußart.Rgt.5 between March 19, 1896 and June 16, 1898 and Chef of the "Feldzeugmeisterei" (Ordnance Departement) between April 1, 1898 and April 18, 1900 He became Oberst in April 21, 1898. Major Nast was promoted to Oberstleutnant August 18, 1898. In 1899 he had: RAO4, EK2, and DAK. In 1900 he had KO3 too. You´re right with the star. The photo shows an Oberstleutnant. So I assume, we have Oberstleutnant Nast in 1900. In the autumn-ranklist 1900 he was not mentioned, because he was set to z.D. (to disposition or "on half pay"), and Oberstleutnant Kohlbach to the command of the regiment. Nast was commander of Fußart.Rgt5 between June 16, 1898 and May 22, 1900. We need to know, when he received his KO3. So the photo must had been taken between summer/autumn 1899 and May 22 1900. Maybe it was taken because of the awarding of KO3 or because of his departure Edited November 10, 2023 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) Yes, I agree. But I can't figure out why it is Nast in the photo. If we were talking about the rank of major then, undoubtedly, this can be considered, but if it is an oberst lieutenant, then why can't we assume that it is Schultz (photo in 1897). That's why I asked where the combat path of Schultz's unit took place, since Schultz and Nast come from the 5th art. brigade. I think the answer is in these geographical names: WEISSENBURG, WORTH, SEDAN, MONT VALERIEN, PARIS Schultz in 1872 was S. - Lt. Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr. 9 Edited November 10, 2023 by KARLnf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Good point. I'll check it this afternoon after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Thank you so much. I'll be waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Is there any news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) Back from work... Well, Sec.Lt. Albert Karl Nast received his EKII in 8th battery/ Festungs-Artillerie-Regiment Nr.5 Sec.Lt. Karl Ludwig Schultz in 4th heavy battery/ Feldart.Rgt.9 FAR9 fought 70/71: Collombey-Nouilly, Gravelotte-St.Privat, Metz, Nouisseville, Toul, Paris, Lessy, Chenegy, Dreux, La Madeleine Bouvet, Bellème, Loigny-Poupry, Orléans, La Motte-Beuvron, Meung, Beaugency-Cravant, Vienne, Oucques, Fréteval, Epuisay, Le Mnas and Orbec. No match with the claps of the officer. Edited November 10, 2023 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Check out 5 art - Schultz was there too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) Yes, I´ve found a Schultz with EKII in the 5.Art.Brig. But in ranklist 1872 he ain´t mentioned. Even not in "Departures". There I only found a "Schulz" (without "t"). And I couldn´t find a Schultz of 5th Art in the EKII list! I think there was a mistake made with the name. Schulz or Schultz is a name like Miller or Smith in english-spoken countries. The are "billions" of them in Germany... From the EKII list: Schultz: Nast: Edited November 10, 2023 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 So we have everything in front of us de oberst Lieutenant Nast? Right? Thank you for your help, we have to check everything, do you understand yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Yes. To me it´s Nast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Send me the same clipping on Kuhling, please, as you cut out Schultz and Nast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 Here we go: G.F.Z. is the name of the regiment. "General-Feldzeugmeister". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Andreas, tell me what these text elements in the rank list mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Hi, mit der Führung betraut means entrusted with leadership Kind regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 And the ones I circled around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, KARLnf said: And the ones I circled around as far as I know: I 1. Bataillon II . 2. Bataillon St Stab Regards Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KARLnf Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 You and Andreas are right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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