South Africa Police Problems in Sth. Africa

[Mervyn Mitton]

The South African Police were first established in 1913 - mainly to provide one major Force for the whole

Country, and also to do away with a multitude of small independent units.

They were a para-military Force and based on the British system with British ranks. They were usually ranked

third in efficiency following Hong Kong and Rhodesia. They were - unfortunately, always known for their ruthless

approach to the public and although I had many as friends, you had to remember that they had fewer then 120,000

men to Police an area the size of Europe. The distance from Durban to Capetown is 1100 miles (1800kms.)

Following the change of Government and politics in 1994, their name became the South African Police Service.

I have lived and worked in many Countries - many with good Police as in Australia - some with poor service

as in Thailand and West Africa. However, I have to say that I have never seen a disciplined and well organised

National Police disintegrate as quickly as the SAPS did.

I have just seen a report on my server giving statistics for police crime in this Country. I think anyone who is used

to getting help from their local Station - or courtesy - will be sadly shocked .

Parliament has just been given a figure of 1,448 serving Police who have criminal records. These are for Murder,

rape, robbery, theft and corruption. 306 were already convicted criminals at the time they joined.

Police officers with criminal records include - a top ranking major-general ; 10 Brigadiers ; 21 Colonels ;

43 Lieut. Colonels ; 10 Majors ; 163 Captains and 84 Lieutenants.

With a list of ranking officers such as this, why should the men be any different ?

[peter monahan]

And I was just getting used to the idea that my youngest, 21 and blonde, would be fine in Cape Town for a year. This isn't helping!

Seriously, a stunning and depressing set of statistics. One of the hallmarks of a working society/nation, in my opinion, is a dependable police and court system. If the sheep dogs are preying on the flock, the wolves too will have a field day. People should be able to sleep safe in their beds and walk the streets of their communities without fear. Otherwise, IMHO, whatever the other markers may say, you're dealing with a failed state!

[Brett Hendey]

Last week, the front-page story in the free weekly newspaper for the part of Durban where I live was, "SAPS forensics fails family". This heralded a story of a bungled murder investigation by police that is shocking even by South Africa's low standards. A young woman returned to apartment after an evening out with friends and she was found murdered there the following day. When the police arrived on the scene, "instead of immediately securing [it], they failed to take any forensic samples or fingerprints. The police photographer took a minimal number of photos .... The family of Tamlyn were told to clean up her bodily fluids. They showed no compassion. They laughed and joked at the scene. It appeared as if this was just another death to them."

The girl's clothes were removed at the morgue and have since disappeared without a forensic examination on them having taken place. Video tapes at the apartment complex were not secured by the police and they have since been recorded over. An investigating officer (i.e. detective) was assigned to the case "some weeks later".

After several months the autopsy report was released to the family and no cause of death was specified.

A town councillor has undertaken a private investigation on behalf of the family and has identified the last person to see the girl alive, but the lack of forensic and other evidence may mean the murder will go unsolved.

The girl's mother said, "Tams was the youngest of my three children. She was my everything and her death has destroyed me. I need answers so my family might have some kind of closure."

I know this will not be welcome news to Peter, but his daughter probably will be safer in Cape Town.

Brett

[Craig]

Its not all that rosy in the UK either!

BBC News - 900 police and community officers have criminal record ...

[paul wood]

Poachers turned gamekeepers?

Paul

[Craig]

No its a drop in standards to be more inclusive. Thats why you've got 5 foot coppers walking the beat.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Really shocking Craig. Apart from the odd driving offence - how can a convicted police officer be allowed to serve ?

[peter monahan]

Would it be fair to describe the post-apartheid South Africa as a 'new nation', with all that implies? Certainly many if not most post-colonial states in Africa, Asia and, I suppose, South America, suffered pretty major 'growing pains' related to both lack of educated, skilled, experienced persons for positions of responsibility plus all the challenges of establishing a system of government and law which is culturally foreign to the vast majority of the population. Never mind the venality, laziness, bloody-mindedness and sheer evil which all systems incorporate to a greater or lesser degree. Hence the need for both robust oversight mechanisms, especially in the courts and policing and also the often scorned 'studies' which flesh out the anecdotal record with the kind of statistics Mervyn provides.

Toronto just had a police officer shot a mentally disturbed teenager eight times - nine shots were fired - before the boy was tasered. 15 officers were present, no civilians were in danger and the youth in question was confined on a city bus. The officer in question has no been charged with murder, though is very unlikely to be convicted. All that said, I certainly wouldn't want Canada's police forces to be judged on the basis of that case! Any evidence that the SA Police is trying to or making progress at cleaning up its act?

[219PG]

Standards may have dropped but I would never make a comparison between the Metropolitan police and the South African police !

[ocpd71]

When the government changed in 1994, were the existing SAP officers and men allowed to stay in the organization? Or were they made to leave when the new government came to power?

[Brett Hendey]

They were allowed to stay. The same applied in all other government organisations. However, a very vigorous "affirmative action" policy was introduced. Existing staff were often by-passed in promotions and appointments from outside were often of less qualified persons. The result is that many experienced officers resigned or took early retirement. The results speak for themselves.

It is worth remembering that when the now-defunct (Afrikaner) National Party took power in 1948, there was a less transparent programme to transfer the staffing and control of government organisations from English-speakers to Afrikaners. This made complaining of injustice after 1994 rather muted. However, unlike the 1948 transition, this one has resulted in massive mismanagement, incompetence and corruption, hence the condition in which South Africa finds itself today.

Brett

[peter monahan]

Reprehensible and alarming but, sadly, hardly surprising.

Tribalism, however one defines one's tribe, seems to be one of the enduring legacies of the human story. Right now in our francophone province of Quebec, the premier, a nationalist, has introduced a widely popular bill. A Charter of Quebec [secular] Values will ban the wearing of religious symbols in any government funded workplace. To quote today's Toronto Star, "veils, kippahs, turbans and even crucifixes". Emphasis mine. Perhaps needless to say, there is no evidence that such symbols have done any harm beyond bruising the tender feelings of a few 'pur laine' Quebecois. Ironically, though Quebec refused to endorse the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms in 1982, it had in fact passed its own charter in 1975 which guaranteed both freedom of religion and expression!

Sorry, didn't mean to go all political, but the consistently low standards to which most societies hold themselves continues to depress me. When I'm Emperor of the Galaxy, things will be better!

Peter

[Guest Rick Research]

Co-Emperor of the Galaxy, brother. OK, I'll take Supreme Minister of Justice--a word all but forgotten here as well. Double standards rule.

[Brett Hendey]

It would be desirable, if not absolutely essential for the entire Government of the Galaxy to come from the membership of the GMIC.

Brett