Japan (european?) made Jap. Order of the Rising Sun

[Gensui]

Gents,

After I got the permission of the owner, I’d like to show you an unusual Japanese Order of the Rising Sun 4th class.

Firstly, I need to thank our expert user “Japan X” for the hint , that this is “unusual” for two reasons: the enamel of the paulownia leaf and the maker’s mark in the ring. It may be a piece, which was manufactured in Prussia in the 1900s.

One of the German SDA member stated, that the hallmark might be an indication for the Johann Godet & Sohn jeweler, who used “JG&S” as hallmark. Of course, nor he or I have any evidence of this theory. But the hallmark on a German Red Eagle looks pretty similar.

Any comments are welcome!

BR, Chris

[JapanX]

It may be a piece, which was manufactured in Prussia in the 1900s.

One of the German SDA member stated, that the hallmark might be an indication for the Johann Godet & Sohn jeweler, who used JG&S as hallmark.

Yep.

This is one of the possibilities.

J = J.

G = Godet

u = und

S = Sohn

Here we have an excellent example of this mark on Knights Cross of the House Order of Hohenzollern with swords.

Pour la Merite with the same mark

This two marks look slighly differently (U is perfectly readable) when compared to our marks on sun and red eagle

Another (theoretical) possibility will be one of these Birmingham makers

1) J.G&S = John Grinsell & Sons (Birmingham - reg. c.1890)

2) J.G&S = John Goode & Sons (Birmingham - 1st q. 20th century)

This is of course only if between G and S we have u (or &)

Frankly this mark looks (at least to me) as J.GbS.

No?

Edited October 8, 2013 by JapanX

[paul wood]

Looks like a crude & to me, I encountered a similar mark on a chinese piece circa 1912 and presumed it to be Godet.

Paul

[JapanX]

&

Seriously?!

[Gensui]

Looks like a crude & to me, I encountered a similar mark on a chinese piece circa 1912 and presumed it to be Godet.

Paul

Well, if it's a "&", could it be not any British maker? Do you know, if Godet used different characters of hallmark?

[paul wood]

The problem with that theory is that as far as I am aware the two Birmingham makers quoted by Nick never made orders or decorations, I have not even seen their marks on Masonic insignia or Jewelled military badges.

An ampersand is the symbol &, which was designed by German typesetter Manfred Johann Amper in 1634 as an abbreviation for the German word "und", which means "and" in English; hence the symbol was first known as "Amper's 'and' ", which was eventually syncopated into "ampersand", the term by which we know it today.

If they invented it why didn't they use it?

Paul

[JapanX]

The problem with that theory is that as far as I am aware the two Birmingham makers quoted by Nick never made orders or decorations

That's true - table silver was their specialty

P.S. 1634?! German typesetter?! I am not so sure about this story Paul http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampersand

[paul wood]

Ampersand usage varies from language to language. In English and French text, the ampersand may be substituted for the words and and et, and both versions may be used in the same text. [NOTE] The German rule is to use the ampersand within formal or corporate titles made up of two separate names. http://www.adobe.com/type/topics/theampersand.html

With more research I now see Amper is as factually accurate as The Tadley Treacle Mines or the Italain Spaghetti fields.

Paul

[JapanX]

The Tadley Treacle Mines or the Italain Spaghetti fields

I think these should be our next subjects

[paul wood]

The Tadley treacle mines are well known to any one in the Hampshire/Berkshire area and by connoisseurs the world over for the quality, darkness and thickness of the treacle, prices are becoming higher and higher as rumours of the seams becoming exhausted in the next 30-50 years. It is rumoured that a wealthy Japanese business man paid over £10,000 for a tin of the first production in 1894. Even a a tin from the new production retails at Fortunum and Masons for £110. Nick, I am surprised Russian oligarchs haven't been trying to buy the mines.

The Italian spaghetti fields are especially known for their harvest festivities which usually tale place at the beginning of April, when the spaghetti which grow profusely in large fields throughout central Italy is picked. An orgy of drunkenness to the local god of fertility takes place ensuring a bumper harvest for the following year.

But I am sure you all knew this already.

PAul

[JapanX]

But I am sure you all knew this already.

Ha!

You are talking with repeated participant of this famous

orgy of drunkenness

[JapanX]

To sum up.

We have J.GuS mark that is definitely belongs to Godet.

Then there is this J.G&(that looks like в or 8)S mark

Is that possible that Godet used both?

I don`t see why not, since sometimes it used simply JGS mark

Edited October 8, 2013 by JapanX

[Gensui]

Thanks to your pics, Nick, I have the same oppinion. Seems like Godet used different "letters" on their hallmark. But honestly, would it make sense?

Why is one company using different marks?

I heard about any aux badges, which were made by Schwerin Berlin, but not stamped. Maybe to obfuscate any quality issue and operating as a "unknown maker".

I'm wondering, if there is something similar with Godet (IF maker is Godet, of course...).

BR, Chris

[JapanX]

Nothing to worry about dear Chris!

I just found a definitive proof that Godet manufactured Rising suns between 1913 and 1929 (and most likely even earlier)

I'll post some pictures in a couple of days

vom Erfolg berauscht (+ ein Flashe Duque de Sevilla 2009),

Nick

[JapanX]

Ok.

Here it is.

A page from Godet catalogue.

See

[JapanX]

Other pages

Cover

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

When this catalogue was published?

The answer is on the page 16

Address...

55 Charlottenstraße

Godet address beetween 1913 and 1929

[JapanX]

Here some evidence

By the way, constantly &

[JapanX]

Seems like Godet used different "letters" on their hallmark. But honestly, would it make sense?

Why is one company using different marks?

Yep.

Different hallmarks ...

Check out the mark on this DD breast star from Godet (no later than 1902)

Edited October 12, 2013 by JapanX

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

But it looks like this JGuS dominates all others ...

Nice example of Verdiensttzeichen, Ehrenzeichen from Godet

[Gensui]

Actually, it shows that Godet had the Japanese Order of the Rising Sun in their portfolio!

Great info, Nick!

BR, Chris

[JapanX]

Interesting, that only RS was on Godet menu

Nick