Japan Order of Pillars 1st and 3rd

[dark379]

Hi, i like to share my observation base on my Order of Pillars 1st and 3rd class collection

base on my observation i try to measure the length from bottom to top of the medal (ring loop no included)

1st = 69 mm

3rd = 68 mm

in Thickness it also has a difference ( Enamel portion still not included, only the outer most side)

1st = 4 mm (photo #3 left side)

3rd = 3 mm (photo #3 right side)

Has bigger ring loop the 3rd class

My 1st class has no "M" mark on top

Thank you

[JapanX]

Interesting observations!

Now we know who bought this 1st class badge on eBay

Congrats!

P.S. Is 3rd class marked?

[dark379]

Hi again Nick, first of all Thank you and my 3rd class has no "M" mark too.

[JapanX]

No wonder it is not marked!

It has features of so called "late vintage" that we discussed a couple of years ago (among these features enamel in central medallion is the most profound one). Some claim that these badges were manufactured by Manchu mint in 1943-1945.

Excellent 1st class badge you have there!

[dark379]

I see Nick, Thank you also....

i have also seen your discussions in "late vintage" posted.

[utopis]

While the difference in length is relatively small the difference in thickness can be observed by the naked eye.

I encourage you all to measure the thickness of your 1st and 3rd classes you have in your collection. Maybe we'll find another feature in addition to the rings to distinguish the classes.

By the way what is the difference in weight then?

[JapanX]

Just measured my "early" 3rd class badge (marked with M) and it has same thickness as "later" unmarked 3rd class that is shown in this thread in post #1 - approximately 3 mm

[Taganrog]

While the difference in length is relatively small the difference in thickness can be observed by the naked eye.

I encourage you all to measure the thickness of your 1st and 3rd classes you have in your collection. Maybe we'll find another feature in addition to the rings to distinguish the classes.

By the way what is the difference in weight then?

My badge third class has a thickness of 3.6 mm. It has the stamp of the "M"

[Taganrog]

[dark379]

Hi again i have the weight of each medal (i have lifted the ring loop lightly to lessen the ring weight)

1st = 95.5 +- grams

3rd = 78.5 +- grams

so it has a lot of difference in weight almost 17 grams

includes ring mine is

1st = 96.37

3rd = 83 +- ( cant weight it well due has ribbon)

Edited November 4, 2013 by dark379

[dark379]

1st class weight

[JapanX]

...so it has a lot of difference in weight almost 17 grams...

Naturally!

Hope pretty soon we will get measurements for 1st class badge marked with M

[dark379]

Ya so we can compare the average weight of 1st and 3rd class, it really have 10+ grams difference for now. which is large difference already.

[JapanX]

Indeed! :beer:

[JapanX]

Ok.

Friends sent me measurements for 1st and 3rd class badges.

1st class badge - marked with M ​

Height 69 mm

Width 63 mm

Weight 80 g

Thickness (including central boss) 4.29 mm

3rd class badge - unmarked

Height 69 mm

Width 63 mm

Weight 79 g

Thickness (including central boss) 4.19 mm

I asked them for thickness without central boss.

+

I expect measurements for another 1st class badge marked with M ;)

[dark379]

Nice info Nick

[JapanX]

Info upgrade (for post #15)

1st class badge - marked with M ​

Thickness (edge) 3.5 mm

3rd class badge - unmarked

Thickness (edge) 3.3 mm

[dark379]

Info upgrade (for post #15)

1st class badge - marked with M ​

Thickness (edge) 3.5 mm

3rd class badge - unmarked

Thickness (edge) 3.3 mm

I see.... so it was also close to 4 mm thick, but the weight is far from mine.

[JapanX]

Yes, yours 1st class badge is starting to become more and more special

[JapanX]

A couple of second ago (literally ) received this measurements of 1st class badge from a friend

1st class badge - marked with M ​

Height 77 mm (with suspension knob)

Width 66 mm

Weight 83 g

Thickness measurements will come shortly.

Stay tuned ;)

Edited November 5, 2013 by JapanX

[dark379]

Hi again Nick, so the 2 sample of 1st class "M" mark are 80+ grams only

Thank you for the additional information.

[JapanX]

Info upgrade (for post # 20)

Measurements were made by electronic micrometer.

NORTH = top or knob suspension

Thickness (edge)

NORTH 3.38 mm

EAST 3.42 mm

WEST 3.41 mm

SOUTH 3.42 mm

[JapanX]

Well, that's it

I believe two conclusions can be drawn from these numbers

a) one shouldn't weight everything in sight while trying to determine authenticity of this or that piece - there is obvious (and quite normal) instability in dimensions and weights

b) out colleague Melvin has very interesting "fatty" 1st class badge in his collection :cheers:

[dark379]

I see Nick nice conclusion, and Thank you for the info of other 2 "M" mark 1st class medal.

so the only difference we can see for now between 1st and 3rd class are still the ring loop.

Edited November 6, 2013 by dark379

[JapanX]

Yep, ring loop remains primary feature ...

As we know thickness of 3rd class badges varies from

3 mm / 3.3 mm / 3.6 mm

with corresponding weights

78.5 g/ 79 g/ 84.7 g

1st class badges (marked with M)

3.5 mm / 3.4 mm

80 g / 83 g

And only your 1st class badge has thickness 4 mm and weight 96 g.