Japan Christie's Auction: Post-battle damage assessment map of Pearl Harbor.

[JapanX]

One thing is for certain – this map is known for quite a long time.

Old photo

Current photo from Christie’s

PDF description of lot from Christie’s

Release.pdf

[dond]

I see ...

I simply can't understand why Commander Mitsuo Fuchida willingly gave up the such precious (if not sacred!) personal memorabilia to an american historian during 1947 interview. Not to mention that I don't think that he (or anyone else for that matter) would dare to add english subtitles to an original report. Maybe it will be much more realistically to assume that report on Christie's is a copy (or special version) that was prepared by Commander specifically for his 1947 interview.

If Commander didn't "gave up" anything during his interview and original report was already in the possession of Prange, then why such strangely formulated provenance and English subs on original report.

Perhaps he gave it up so he could get the Japanese perspective entered into history. The english sub titles make perfect sense. They were probably added during the interview as I'm sure Fuchida was asked the meanings of things. Why would it not be added to the original report? Did they have a copy available? And why do you get so combative when someone presents comments that oppose your views? You cannot have a conversation if we all agree now can we?

As for giving things away, I gave all my uniforms away except for one set within a year of being out. They didn't mean anything to me but the neighborhood kids liked them for paintball.

[JapanX]

As for giving things away, I gave all my uniforms away except for one set within a year of being out. They didn't mean anything to me but the neighborhood kids liked them for paintball.

Dan, I was talking about giving up map that was made for and (probably used) by His Imperial Majesty - living God for many japanese.

You are talking about giving up day-to-day uniform ...

I am afraid we are talking about slightly different things.

I simply expressed my doubts ... Nothing more

Now about this your comment

And why do you get so combative when someone presents comments that oppose your views?

Combative?!

Me?!

Dear Dan, please re-check this thread very carefully - especially post # 9.

What you view as "combative behavior" is simply me "trying to explain" why I have doubts that this map was used in the presence of Emperor?

Of course these doubts can be ill-founded ...

I also tried to explain my point of view on "celestial purity" of Christie`s.

That`s it.

[JapanX]

On second thought ...

Here comes an excellent example of your behavior dear "non-combatant"

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/59287-finally-a-maker-to-go-ith-this-cross/

Post #18

All these demands ...

"Show me"

"What is so obvious?"

or this phrase

"The older collectors have a hard time"...

What the heck is this?!

Ok, I will rephrase.

Dear Don, why do you get so combative when someone presents comments that oppose your views?

Or this thread (where you in your second (!!!) post declared that I am "still fighting the Cold War" in thread that was started in section that recommends "Pull up a leather chair, order yourself a drink and sit back and enjoy the company." Guess only guys who supposed to "enjoy" this section is you and your friend Chris B)

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/58900-the-bestest-fighter-hero-of-all-time-or/page-2

That's why I will greatly appreciate if in the future you withhold your comments about my "combatativness".

[Rogi]

I always break down and asses the situation when trying to buy something, yes there is an aspect of risk in every purchase and there are "perfect" fakes out there. I'm always open to both suggestions in collecting, but in this situation it is different, the item is being advertised (without reading the description) as the map itself that was used in this post battle briefing, as we all too often know in collecting a copy or something that wasn't used somewhere doesn't demand as much financial or historical value as something that was.

Copies of the Declaration of Independence don't command as much esteem, value or historical significance as the original.

In this situation if I break it down into other words it would be like a famous wizard book writer selling her napkins that she wrote her book on about a young wizarding boy that survived immense turmoil (and has a lighting bolt on top of his forhead, you know the one)

If for example an auction house added "May or May not be the napkins *insert author* wrote her book on" and these napkins had additional additions to them ie German translation of the text on them....

She owned them at one time, but passed them on to *insert other famous author* when it finally got down the line to the auction house.

Would we automatically assume that these were the exact ones that she wrote the book on, or would we try to do research and figure out how these were given away.

I don't think anyone is trying to prove or disprove this is the map (especially by the sentence statement from Christies that gives it a 50/50 vibe), just put forth questions, none of us can really answer these questions on authenticity, it is up to whoever is selling to do it, to convince one person or another that is interested in this listing to either buy, or avoid the listing. I'm just surprised as I was stating in my initial questions, for this amount of money, is this provenance enough for a sale, for someone to consider the item legitimate for what it is being sold and represented as.

Christies and Sothebys have had their fair share of fake incidents in the past (The $$$ vintage wine fakes, The 2 Greek Paintings etc) I think a lot of fakes can run around in an auction house, it is just dependant on what they do AFTER they sell a piece and it is found to be fake, if the buyer isn't satisfied and experts on a specific field in question deem it to be fake, there should be an option to return a piece.

It is up the collector to do due diligence on the item you are purchasing, in the end you aren't buying the auction house, you're buying the item that is being sold within it, Whether someone believes it to be a fake item only matters to the buyer of interest. Once it is established to their satisfaction then they will either buy or avoid the item.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Rogi

[dond]

JapanX, That is exactly what I was talking about. You obviously like to get the last word in too so I will leave it and this thread to you.

Edited November 30, 2013 by dond

[JapanX]

You can do whatever you like.

No need to inform me about your auctions

P.S. Good luck with this "walting my way thru pseudo-expert land"!

Edited November 30, 2013 by JapanX