Great Britain WWII era Royal Navy Senior Officer's Visor Cap

[15THPACAV]

This is a cap for RN ranks of commander and captain. It is named on the sweatband to a Surgeon Captain. The maker is Gieves, which can be barely made out under the right light.

The material is a very soft, high quality doeskin wool.

Comments appreciated.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Gieves are one of the top military tailors in London. With King's Crown it is probably of WW2 vintage.

Nice condition - although it does seem to have a large peak. Mervyn

[Jerry B]

Very good example. I notice it has a red dot in the center of the crown and I have been told that was changed to a blue dot in the 1920's.

Here it is on an example from my collection, to show to what I mean.

[15THPACAV]

Gieves are one of the top military tailors in London. With King's Crown it is probably of WW2 vintage.

Nice condition - although it does seem to have a large peak. Mervyn

I believe that larger peak is common with WWII era caps, including army and RAF versions. I cannot say that ALL caps had a larger peak, but many that I have seen in hand, and in photos, have a larger peak than current examples.

[15THPACAV]

Very good example. I notice it has a red dot in the center of the crown and I have been told that was changed to a blue dot in the 1920's.

Here it is on an example from my collection, to show to what I mean.

RN reserve cap band detail annotated.jpg

Can't say that I paid all that attention to the crown backing. I really don't have a lot of reference material on RN uniforms.

Would I be correct in assuming that a Surgeon Captain would likely be RN, rather than RNR or RNVR?

[Odulf]

Very good example. I notice it has a red dot in the center of the crown and I have been told that was changed to a blue dot in the 1920's.

Here it is on an example from my collection, to show to what I mean.

RN reserve cap band detail annotated.jpg

That's an interesting observation Jerry. I went trough my collection of RN cap badges and I have noticed that I have many KC badges with a blue diamond, and some with a red diamond. All badges with QC have the blue diamond, which would support your remark.

[Jerry B]

That's an interesting observation Jerry. I went trough my collection of RN cap badges and I have noticed that I have many KC badges with a blue diamond, and some with a red diamond. All badges with QC have the blue diamond, which would support your remark.

I don't remember where I picked the information up from, but as far as I am aware it is accurate. Though like all such things there was probably somewhat of an overlap as old stock is used up.

[Hugh]

Perhaps the oversized visor is to accomodate the scrambled eggs. This one is big enough to carry the additional eggs for an admiral!

H

[Mervyn Mitton]

Very interesting observation on the jewels in the rim of the Crown. Red , of course, was a ruby

and blue - a sapphire. I must look up a picture of the Crown to see which one is actually there ?

Must have had a reason to change and your comment on dates seems plausible. Mervyn

[Mervyn Mitton]

The Imperial Crown - as used for the badge - is the second one from the top. Not very clear.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_05_2014/post-6209-0-78700500-1398936715.jpgclick

[Taz]

A few crowns in more detail.

http://royalexhibitions.co.uk/crown-jewels-2/royal-regalia/

[Odulf]

Further to the matter of the blue or red diamond, some photos from my collection

Edited May 2, 2014 by Odulf

[Odulf]

and some more

[Jerry B]

Further to the matter of the blue or red diamond, some photos from my collection

Do they show any correlation datewise with their being red or blue?

Another from my collection, not Navy but Army Tankers NCO arm badge. Certainly post 1920's in this case.