Yugoslavia Hero of Socialst Labor in ebay

[taka317]

Hello

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yugoslavia-Order-of-Hero-of-Socialst-Labor-/201096565306?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed24a123a

I think is fake?how do u think about it

[paja]

Greetings,

I am not an expert but the order does not look like fake to me. On the other hand there are some very suspicious details on the back side.

Behind every big stone there are traces of what looks like glue or silicone. This is something you don't see on normal piece in fact that is something that you should not see on any decoration at all. Also take a look at rivets...

My theory is that someone took out the real stones and put something else in their place. Also perhaps the central part was taken off so that all of the small stones could be changed as well, that way the rivets were damaged.

Anyway that's my opinion, I would like to hear what some other forum members think of this.

Edited May 26, 2014 by paja

[utopis]

Yes, the seller himself describes that the large stones were removed and he replaced the missing ones. I don't think the central stones were changed.

Other than that: too expensive for this damaged unnumbered version.

Edited May 26, 2014 by utopis

[Rogi]

Wow, if this is worth this price our Military Merits are all worth 500 each lol

Sad that this one is down to this state. Although I wouldn't mind adding it to the collection for a fair price

[paja]

Yes, the seller himself describes that the large stones were removed and he replaced the missing ones. I don't think the central stones were changed.

Other than that: too expensive for this damaged unnumbered version.

You are absolutely right! I just checked the photos didn't even bother to see the description with (long) explanation, my bad!

I made the assumption that the small stones were changed based on the glue under the big ones, not because they look suspicious so you are probably right about that as well.

Perhaps the central part was somehow separated from the order itself and then glued back with that white stuff we can see inside the small holes...

Edited May 27, 2014 by paja

[taka317]

I solved my questions, thank you, the other you can tell me the approximate price of YU-STAR

[new world]

...

Other than that: too expensive for this damaged unnumbered version.

It's not supposed to be numbered.

[utopis]

It's not supposed to be numbered.

I don't understand what you mean. there are numbered versions and there are unnumbered ones.

[paja]

So far I saw just one order with number on the back and it was very unusual (the number), not like any other we can see on Yugoslav decorations...

It is interesting that on the round central part of the back side of some examples one can see arrow I suppose meaning this side up.

Also on this particular ebay piece placement of women wearing folk costumes is different that usual. Something I also noticed just once before.

Edited May 27, 2014 by paja

[utopis]

So far I saw just one order with number on the back and it was very unusual (the number), not like any other we can see on Yugoslav decorations...

It is interesting that on the round central part of the back side of some examples one can see arrow I suppose meaning this side up.

Also on this particular ebay piece placement of women wearing folk costumes is different that usual. Something I also noticed just once before.

I have seen several numbered pieces, all of them bearing very low numbers and in my book these deserve a higher price than the much more frequently encountered unnumbered ones. Only the pieces made with naturally mined rubies deserve a higher price.

-

I don't know why some of them have arrows on their back but these seem all to be late pieces made from gilded silver. Does one really need an instruction which side goes up on an order with a motif that clearly defines top and bottom? A technical instruction for the assembler would be placed on the hidden side, I would assume.

-

Care to elaborate the last point?

Edited May 27, 2014 by utopis

[paja]

I wrote my last reply based on the photos of that decoration from my archive, which is pretty humble. I did some research in meanwhile and found one more numbered piece, with the same type of number, both are under 20! And both look like they were engraved not stamped.

About the arrow, that was just a guess, all in all that's very unusual detail and it always points to the upper part (at least to my knowledge).

About the "Women in folk costumes", there are two ways of their placement to correct myself, ebay piece is still different.

Let me illustrate, it's easier. Take for example woman I marked in the photo bellow.

Here she's pointing to the south, on the other examples I saw so far she is either pointing to the south east (older variants?) or to the south west.

Edited May 27, 2014 by paja

[utopis]

I think you are mistaken.

Take a close look at all five "golden" women:

Two of them have heads that point to the right, one of them has a head that points to the left and two of them have straight heads. The golden wreath is a circle - it's purely up to the person that assembled the piece which woman would be at the south position and thereby determining where the head would point.

Edited May 27, 2014 by utopis

[paja]

I have to choose my words more carefully, I misspoken, not even the photo helped

You kind of said what I meant in the other part of your reply, that particular woman is placed either on the southeastern or southwestern position, never southern, at least I never saw something like that...

Edited May 27, 2014 by paja

[utopis]

20% chance

[paja]

Looks like you have a bigger archive

I have photos of I think 12 different orders, and on all of them the placement is like I said before. Those two are the only examples (now) known to me that are different.

By the way Is that also piece from ebay? I remember one like that got sold last year, I was foolish enough not to save photos of it.

Can we outline the possibility that it is the same order?

[utopis]

Yes, that's the one.

-

Although the image quality is very bad you can clearly make out that this is another one.

[new world]

I don't understand what you mean. there are numbered versions and there are unnumbered ones.

Vast majority of these awards were without numbers.

One numbered example that I saw had number that looked like it was not done professionlly - it looked engraved rather than stamped, like on most Yugoslavian awards.

In my book these numbers were not placed on the awards on the mint.

[new world]

I have Hero award from last emission in my collection.

Award in question looks mosty fine (except for the stones). It seems to be completely missing silver plating on the reverse of center star though.

Edited May 28, 2014 by new world

[utopis]

Vast majority of these awards were without numbers.

One numbered example that I saw had number that looked like it was not done professionlly - it looked engraved rather than stamped, like on most Yugoslavian awards.

In my book these numbers were not placed on the awards on the mint.

So by whom, then? Do you think someone bought several early Labor heroes just to engrave them with numbers? I don't think so.

[Rogi]

Is there a sample of the numbered versions? (picture would be great)

I know that some early versions of Hero of Socialist Labour definatley had a serial number.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Rogi

[utopis]

By the way - what do you mean by "not professionally". How is handwork by an artisan less professional then mechanical stamping?

The engraving is done excellently, far better then Soviet Mint engraving of that time.

Lastly, we shouldn't forget that the Labor Heroes weren't produced on stock. Every piece was commissioned solely, assembled and finished one at a time.

[new world]

By the way - what do you mean by "not professionally". How is handwork by an artisan less professional then mechanical stamping?

The engraving is done excellently, far better then Soviet Mint engraving of that time.

Lastly, we shouldn't forget that the Labor Heroes weren't produced on stock. Every piece was commissioned solely, assembled and finished one at a time.

I meant not done at the state mint, not in the same facility where awards were made.

[utopis]

Well, there are only four possibilities:

1. made by the mint

2. made by the bureau responsible for the awardings - they received the award by the mint and had them engraved separately

3. commissioned by the recipient

4. made by someone after communism to increase the value

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2. not likely why not commission by the mint?

3. What would be the sense? Only a central numeric systems would by logical

4. Not likely. One would need several very hard to get early versions. And than what? Mix them together with forged documents of Communist celebrities or what?

Edited May 28, 2014 by utopis

[new world]

More questions than answers...

[new world]

Numbered one