blueman Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 another for mervyn helmet is attached Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Blueman - have you posted the full helmet for this badge, previously ? Should you have a picture available, it will help with identification. This is a lovely helmet plate - with a little damage to the enamel background. It is for King William 4th - although it could also cover the Reign of George 4th. Firstly though, I must point out that it is not for a British Regiment - the Lion has the Guelphic Crown - so is part of the King's Royal German Legion. We can be fairly sure of the date - we gave up using the coat-of-arms showing our claim to France with the Fleur de Lis in 1801 and introduced one that was centrally quartered with the Electoral Cap of Hanover - the Royal Family being of German Descent from Hanover. However, in 1816 Hanover became a Kingdom and the Cap became a Crown. This dates the Badge between 1816 and 1837 when the Arms changed for Queen Victoria. The Crown for the Georgian Kings tends to be quite rounded on the sides - whereas, William 4th made them more angular. I am fairly confidant that this will be with-in the reign of William and this was 1830 - 37. Without seeing the helmet I don't think we can add much more. Best wishes Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 cheers mervyn its in an auction tommorrow so will try for it....kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Kev - will hold fingers for you. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman Posted June 11, 2014 Author Share Posted June 11, 2014 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-17727500-1402493017.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-20723400-1402493048.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Kev - Were you succesful in your bid ? I think one of our helmet experts should be allowed to comment and to make a positive identification. For myself, I would think it would be worthwhile having it restored, and the badge re-enamelled. However, let's first hear what the experts think. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 hi mervyn yes i bought it ,but i dont know what ?? a bit of a gamble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I agree it does look a bit battered and parts are missing. Do some close-ups and let's see what the experts think. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter monahan Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Not sure about the lining - that one looks like a shako rather than helmet, though not wrong for the probably period. yrs should be leather. A lovely piece though, especially as a fixer-upper as the estate agents say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 more pics hopefull will get idhttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-35090300-1403171909.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-50516500-1403171917.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-56100300-1403171933.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-51375800-1403172003.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I don't like the way that there is a split running down both front and back. Helmets are usually cast in one piece for strength. This may have had a different construction and has opened with age. For your sake , I sincerely hope it is not a made-up item - this is where we need some expert opinion. For the future - I would advise against just sending a badge - it really needs more to make an accurate identification. We will have to wait now for other opinions. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter monahan Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I have to agree with Mervyn about the skull being two pieces - not a good sign, IMHO. That plus the cloth liner rather than leather may indicate that it is a good quality copy, perhaps done by a regiment for a colour guard some time after the originals were worn, or made up as a display piece rather than something intended to be worn regualrly by a serving trooper, as that cloth lining would make it hellish uncomfortable, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry B Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 On the Victorian wars forum it was considered to be a theatrical piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjac Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Despite what looks like the Royal device it doesn't look like any British helmet I have ever seen. The shape of the helmet is peculiar, the plume holder is wrong, as is the rosette for the chinchain and the badge looks like it's been cobbled together. I agree-probably a theatrical piece,or somebody trying it on. There were helmets a bit like this floating around a few years ago, with the the numeral '6' in a star, if I remember correctly. Patrick Edited June 23, 2014 by pjac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think we must agree that this is probably theatrical - however, the helmet plate could well be original . It looks well made and has enamel. Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 hi guys it seems a lot of trouble for a good looking badge on rubbish helmet ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Mitton Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Kev - I often think the same. Actually, I think what happens is that various items are donated to small theatre companies - whilst the big Companies buy up all the old uniforms they can from military and police sources. Perhaps at some time they may require additional ones and then commission - but, still using what they have in stock. This could account for the badge. I don't suppose we will ever know - however, I would advise that you get on-the-spot advise on the badge. See if a military auctioneer thinks it has a value as it is - and, if re-enamelling would add to value ? Mervyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Bates Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 (edited) British metal cavalry helmets were made in three pieces; two sections for the skull and one for the front peak. The seams were covered by a vertical strip of foliage at the rear and a horizontal one to cover the join at the front peak and the skull. The rest of the join was covered by the helmet plate and the spike and base. Stuart Edited October 10, 2014 by Stuart Bates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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