helmet badge

[blueman]

another for mervyn helmet is attached

[Mervyn Mitton]

Blueman - have you posted the full helmet for this badge, previously ? Should you have a picture available, it will

help with identification.

This is a lovely helmet plate - with a little damage to the enamel background. It is for King William 4th - although it

could also cover the Reign of George 4th. Firstly though, I must point out that it is not for a British Regiment - the

Lion has the Guelphic Crown - so is part of the King's Royal German Legion.

We can be fairly sure of the date - we gave up using the coat-of-arms showing our claim to France with the Fleur de Lis

in 1801 and introduced one that was centrally quartered with the Electoral Cap of Hanover - the Royal Family being of

German Descent from Hanover. However, in 1816 Hanover became a Kingdom and the Cap became a Crown. This

dates the Badge between 1816 and 1837 when the Arms changed for Queen Victoria. The Crown for the Georgian

Kings tends to be quite rounded on the sides - whereas, William 4th made them more angular.

I am fairly confidant that this will be with-in the reign of William and this was 1830 - 37. Without seeing the helmet I

don't think we can add much more. Best wishes Mervyn

[blueman]

cheers mervyn its in an auction tommorrow so will try for it....kev

[Mervyn Mitton]

Kev - will hold fingers for you. Mervyn

[blueman]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-17727500-1402493017.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-20723400-1402493048.jpg

[Mervyn Mitton]

Kev - Were you succesful in your bid ? I think one of our helmet experts should be allowed to comment

and to make a positive identification. For myself, I would think it would be worthwhile having it restored, and

the badge re-enamelled. However, let's first hear what the experts think. Mervyn

[blueman]

hi mervyn yes i bought it ,but i dont know what ?? a bit of a gamble

[Mervyn Mitton]

I agree it does look a bit battered and parts are missing. Do some close-ups and let's see what the experts think. Mervyn

[peter monahan]

Not sure about the lining - that one looks like a shako rather than helmet, though not wrong for the probably period. yrs should be leather. A lovely piece though, especially as a fixer-upper as the estate agents say!

[blueman]

more pics hopefull will get idhttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-35090300-1403171909.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-50516500-1403171917.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-56100300-1403171933.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2014/post-10499-0-51375800-1403172003.jpg

[Mervyn Mitton]

I don't like the way that there is a split running down both front and back. Helmets are usually cast in one piece for

strength. This may have had a different construction and has opened with age. For your sake , I sincerely hope

it is not a made-up item - this is where we need some expert opinion.

For the future - I would advise against just sending a badge - it really needs more to make an accurate

identification. We will have to wait now for other opinions. Mervyn

[peter monahan]

I have to agree with Mervyn about the skull being two pieces - not a good sign, IMHO. That plus the cloth liner rather than leather may indicate that it is a good quality copy, perhaps done by a regiment for a colour guard some time after the originals were worn, or made up as a display piece rather than something intended to be worn regualrly by a serving trooper, as that cloth lining would make it hellish uncomfortable, I suspect.

[Jerry B]

On the Victorian wars forum it was considered to be a theatrical piece.

[pjac]

Despite what looks like the Royal device it doesn't look like any British helmet I have ever seen. The shape of the helmet is peculiar, the plume holder is wrong, as is the rosette for the chinchain and the badge looks like it's been cobbled together. I agree-probably a theatrical piece,or somebody trying it on. There were helmets a bit like this floating around a few years ago, with the the numeral '6' in a star, if I remember correctly. Patrick

Edited June 23, 2014 by pjac

[Mervyn Mitton]

I think we must agree that this is probably theatrical - however, the helmet plate could well be original . It looks well made

and has enamel. Mervyn

[blueman]

hi guys it seems a lot of trouble for a good looking badge on rubbish helmet ??

[Mervyn Mitton]

Kev - I often think the same. Actually, I think what happens is that various items are donated to small theatre companies -

whilst the big Companies buy up all the old uniforms they can from military and police sources. Perhaps at some time they

may require additional ones and then commission - but, still using what they have in stock. This could account for the badge.

I don't suppose we will ever know - however, I would advise that you get on-the-spot advise on the badge. See if a military

auctioneer thinks it has a value as it is - and, if re-enamelling would add to value ? Mervyn

[Stuart Bates]

British metal cavalry helmets were made in three pieces; two sections for the skull and one for the front peak. The seams were covered by a vertical strip of foliage at the rear and a horizontal one to cover the join at the front peak and the skull.

The rest of the join was covered by the helmet plate and the spike and base.

Stuart

Edited October 10, 2014 by Stuart Bates