All Police Forces Truncheons and things that sting a bit

[tjones]

There are no set prices - a lot depends on the details if it has been engraved. You can find bargains in out of the way places -

but a good and historical tipstaff can sell for 1000 pounds ($1600) up-wards. When I did my book we could only find just

over 2000 still in existance - and that included all British Museums. A few more have surfaced over the years, but they are in small

numbers. Should you start collecting , be careful. Many are repainted or repaired. Try to send me a picture first. Mervyn

Did you see the tipstaff that was knocked down for €1600 a few days ago on estimate of €100 - €150? If you click on the picture you can make the picture larger and then use the "zoom in" button to make it larger still. The engraving merits a close inspection.

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/sheppards-auction-house/catalogue-id-2916022/lot-24767929

[Mervyn Mitton]

A lovely example - King George 3rd - 1760-1820. He was the Constable of .............. I can read what is there - but what letters are not showing ? His number was '10' - so must have been a Town.

Thanks for showing this. Mervyn

[Mervyn Mitton]

Dave - I was always under the impression that they had abolished the Riot Act. When you took part in the Liverpool Riot , did

the Police have to accept claims for damage caused during the Riot ? Perhaps it was that bit that was changed ? Also, did

they still Read the Act in order to declare it a Riot ? Interesting details ? Best wishes Mervyn

[Dave Wilkinson]

Dave - I was always under the impression that they had abolished the Riot Act. When you took part in the Liverpool Riot , did

the Police have to accept claims for damage caused during the Riot ? Perhaps it was that bit that was changed ? Also, did

they still Read the Act in order to declare it a Riot ? Interesting details ? Best wishes Mervyn

Mervyn,

The Riot Act of 1714 was repealed in 1967. The Riot Damages Act 1886 is still in force. The offence of "Riot" itself is now set out in Section 1 of the Public Order Act 1986. There is no longer a requirement for a public announcement or warning to be made or given. Yes, in the event of a riot (the fact that persons are charged with the offence is sufficient) then any claims for damage must be considered by the Police and Crime Commissioner for the police area. Essentially, they have simply dropped the requirement to "read" the Act.

Best wishes, Dave.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Dave Wilkinson

[Nightbreak]

The Saleroom currently has an ebony and silver Glasgow tipstaff, named, estimated between 800 & 1200 pounds

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/woolley-and-wallis/catalogue-id-2916912/lot-25122296?searchitem=true

I'm about to receive an Edinburgh ebony and Silver-capped High Constable's staff, which looks to be either George IV or William IV.

[Mervyn Mitton]

I illustrate a Glasgow tipstaff in my book - currently the website you show is out of action. I hope you will show pictures

of the Edinburgh High Constable's staff. They are usually about 8/10 inches long (20/22cms) Around the centre is often a silver

band showing the position the bearer held. Mervyn

[Nightbreak]

Mine is a little different. See the attached file. It's apparently got "E.H.C. 114" on it.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Yes, that is the Glasgow style of tipstaff. The coat-of-arms at the base was intended to be used as a Seal to authenticate

documents.

Your new tipstaff will have the EHC at one end and probably VR at the other. Again , intended to be used as a seal. You

may find the name and position of the owner in a band around either end. The wood - which is a standard for Edinburgh

High Constables is ebonised .

Should the Glasgow tipstaff go for that price it will be bargain. The case is missing, but they are still rarer then EHC. Mervyn

[Nightbreak]

Well, that was a lot of money and packaging for a tiny item. 5 1/2 inches long, 3/4 inch in diameter, with the Edinburgh crest on one end (with Instituted 1698 around the rim), the Royal Crest on the other (with E.H.C. No. 114 around the rim)

Apparently No. 29 was sold by Spink in December 1997 and No. 103 sold by Wooley and Wallis in 2011. No. 124 was withdrawn by Bonham's in 2010. Mervyn, Spink references your book, page 87, figure 3, the third ebony & silver tipstaff.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Nightbreak

[Mervyn Mitton]

Never think this is a common item - they are very sought after. The biggest number is in the Museum near to the Castle and

at one time I had about 9 or 10 - now long gone. Pity it doesn't give his job - most of the EHC holders were shopkeepers and

businessmen - they were formed to bring order back to the streets. Later tipstaffs can be for Councillors, Market Officers,

Dock Masters etc..

This is a much earlier example then you usually see - it has the Hanoverian Bonnet above the small coat of arms - this dates

it from 1801 to 1816 - making it King George 3rd. In 1816 Hanover became a Kingdom and the Crown changed. Dating from

George 1st (from 1714) the Monarch in Britain was always the Elector of Hanover - an Independent German Principality.

Well done a lovely addition to your collection. Mervyn

[Nightbreak]

I did some more digging, too. There's one in the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland, added to their collection in the 1930's. And the Woolley's auction in 2011 also had its one withdrawn.

[tjones]

I did some more digging, too. There's one in the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland, added to their collection in the 1930's.  And the Woolley's auction in 2011 also had its one withdrawn.

A lot of these tipstaves seem to sell at auction in one year, and then come back in a new sale a year or two later, and then another year later, come up again for sale.  Hard to believe collectors are getting tired of their bits so quickly and selling them off.  I have to wonder whether theres some profiteering at work here.

[Nightbreak]

I must be looking at the wrong auctions.  This particular style has only shown up a few times and they've often been withdrawn before the auction proper.  There can't be much profiteering if they've been asking 1000 pounds or some and I got mine for 360 pounds.  And that wasn't even my highest bid.

[Mervyn Mitton]

No   -  these are too rare to be used for profiteering.   Much of my collection was sold in the UK some 17 years ago  -  some

have appeard in major auctions and ones that I have noticed have all sold for good prices.    You must remember that many

members of the Public have little knowledge of Tipstaves and would not bid high prices.  I think you were just lucky not to have

a heavily contested auction.   Most of the ones to be seen today are for VR  -  whereas your is George 3rd. between 1801 - 1816.

 

During Victoria's Reign the carrying of a tipstaff conveyed great authority and many positions were created that would not have

existed in the past. Often, the new bearers would have them very elaborately made in silver.  We know of only one small gold one

and that was for the Chamberlain of the Palace to carry in procession.                Mervyn