Combat Infantry Badge

[bigjarofwasps]

Hi Guys,

Having had such a roaring success with my interesting medal group thread, I thought I`d try and take it a step further, and involve other awards, that maybe of interest. To that end can anyone confirm what the current critieria is for the CIB. I believe it was initially awarded to infantry soldiers engaged, in a two way range as it were, but given the current circumstances that troops find themselves in in places like Iraq, I`m curious to know whether being involved in an IED attack, would also qualify you for this award. I`m also under the impression that in WW2, these awards were exchanged for the Bronze Star, is this practice still ongoing or was this just a one off?

Gordon.

[ehrentitle]

Gordon - See this CIB article on Wikipedia at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Infantryman_Badge The exact verbage from the current U.S. Army regulation is included in this article as well as some interesting historical background. The Combat Action Badge (CAB) was authorized in 2005 for non-Infantry soldiers.

Hi Guys,

Having had such a roaring success with my interesting medal group thread, I thought I`d try and take it a step further, and involve other awards, that maybe of interest. To that end can anyone confirm what the current critieria is for the CIB. I believe it was initially awarded to infantry soldiers engaged, in a two way range as it were, but given the current circumstances that troops find themselves in in places like Iraq, I`m curious to know whether being involved in an IED attack, would also qualify you for this award. I`m also under the impression that in WW2, these awards were exchanged for the Bronze Star, is this practice still ongoing or was this just a one off?

Gordon.

Edited March 10, 2006 by ehrentitle

[bigjarofwasps]

Cheers E.

The internet is a wondeful thing, but don`t you just hate it when you find/ are told about a really cool site, then can`t find it again afterwards. I was informed about a really interesting/helpful site about collecting Bronze Stars, it gave examples of fakes, the different types of naming, just about everything you`d need to know about the medal, but can i find it again

[ehrentitle]

I believe the key to your question about awarding the CIB for an IED attack is this line in the regulation, "... present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned infantry or special forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy." It is a commander's call to determine if an IED attack would justify the award of A CIB. My experience is that every unit has a different interpertation of the reg and thus standards vary. Some would be extremely strict and an IED attack would require that the velicle the soldier was riding in to be struck by the IED while others would be inclined to recognize as many soldiers as possible that were riding in the convoy. Same would apply to mortar or rocket attacks. Of course being an Infantryman there are probably numerous opportunities to come under hostile fire other than IED attacks, for example foot patrols.

Also the Bronze Star is not connected to the CIB as it was in WWII, so the award is not necessarily automatic for CIB holders. Again, standards vary from unit to unit on who gets Bronze Star Medals. Some are very liberal, others very strict.

Kevin

Edited March 10, 2006 by ehrentitle

[ehrentitle]

I feel your pain, there is a simular site for the Purple Heart that goes into great detail about WWI and WWII versions of the medal and how to spot fakes. But for the life of me I can't remember where it is. Kevin

Cheers E.

The internet is a wondeful thing, but don`t you just hate it when you find/ are told about a really cool site, then can`t find it again afterwards. I was informed about a really interesting/helpful site about collecting Bronze Stars, it gave examples of fakes, the different types of naming, just about everything you`d need to know about the medal, but can i find it again

[edgecrusher]

Hi could the following be the purpl heart site you are thinking of?

http://www.purplehearts.net/index.html

Cheers

Simon

I feel your pain, there is a simular site for the Purple Heart that goes into great detail about WWI and WWII versions of the medal and how to spot fakes. But for the life of me I can't remember where it is. Kevin

[bigjarofwasps]

Hi could the following be the purpl heart site you are thinking of?

http://www.purplehearts.net/index.html

Yes thats the one, Dave Danner, brought me up to speed, I thought it was about the Bronze Star, but it was in fact the Purple Heart, but it does cover BS`s too, so case closed. That was so frustrating scouring the net, I knew it was there, but didn`t know where to look, anyway all sorted now, cheers guys!!!!

[bigjarofwasps]

I believe the key to your question about awarding the CIB for an IED attack is this line in the regulation, "... present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned infantry or special forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy." It is a commander's call to determine if an IED attack would justify the award of A CIB. My experience is that every unit has a different interpertation of the reg and thus standards vary. Some would be extremely strict and an IED attack would require that the velicle the soldier was riding in to be struck by the IED while others would be inclined to recognize as many soldiers as possible that were riding in the convoy. Same would apply to mortar or rocket attacks. Of course being an Infantryman there are probably numerous opportunities to come under hostile fire other than IED attacks, for example foot patrols.

Also the Bronze Star is not connected to the CIB as it was in WWII, so the award is not necessarily automatic for CIB holders. Again, standards vary from unit to unit on who gets Bronze Star Medals. Some are very liberal, others very strict.

Kevin

Many thanks Kevin, I can see where your coming from. I suppose it also reflects on the CO of the Regiment, it can`t be too bad for him, even if he doesn`t win one, he`ll be the guy whose Regiment got 30 CIB`s for that incident at blah,blah blah. Next thing he`s a full Col, or doesn`t it work like that? Going back to our original topic, given the level of IED attacks in Iraq, surely the CIB will become so common, that it`ll loose its meaning? Become under valued, which I feel would be a shame, NOT, in anyway to under value the intensity of an IED attack, there no fun!!! Does the US army have any counter measures againest them? Don`t answer that one!!!!! I`m looking forward to hearing whether the 2nd Btn of the 127th National Guard, get any awards for their tour in Iraq. Will CIB`s be gazzetted in the same way as other awards?

[ehrentitle]

Many thanks Kevin, I can see where your coming from. I suppose it also reflects on the CO of the Regiment, it can`t be too bad for him, even if he doesn`t win one, he`ll be the guy whose Regiment got 30 CIB`s for that incident at blah,blah blah. Next thing he`s a full Col, or doesn`t it work like that? Going back to our original topic, given the level of IED attacks in Iraq, surely the CIB will become so common, that it`ll loose its meaning? Become under valued, which I feel would be a shame, NOT, in anyway to under value the intensity of an IED attack, there no fun!!! Does the US army have any counter measures againest them? Don`t answer that one!!!!! I`m looking forward to hearing whether the 2nd Btn of the 127th National Guard, get any awards for their tour in Iraq. Will CIB`s be gazzetted in the same way as other awards?

Gordon - You bring a uniquely British perspective to this discussion. Vietnam era Infantryman were saying the same thing after Panama, Grenada and Gulf War I. They thought that the CIB was cheapened and undervalued because it was being awarded for very short periods of combat operations. My battalion commander, a decorated Vietnam veteran, took the CIB off of his uniform in protest after Panama. I also had a Sergeant First Class who worked for me years later who proudly wore the CIB and the 82nd Airborne Division combat patch. It turns out he was in Panama but never saw combat, he ran the mobile PX. So there will always be inequity in granting CIBs as long as the local commander is in control of the process.

As for "gazzetting", that process is not know in the US Army. To my knowledge no central rolls are maintained on CIBs or even medals and decorations (except perhaps the highest like the Medal of Honor and the Distinguished Service Cross). There are probably group orders awarding the CIB at battalion, brigade or even division level and some divisions may have even designed a certificate (there is no Army level certificate that I know of for the EIB or CIB). But for the most part, these badges, awards and decorations are recorded in individual service records: the Officer Records Brief or ORB for an officer and the 201 File for enlisted. Upon discharge or retirement they are recorded on a DD 214.

As for unit honors these are maintained in a lineage and honors statement produced for a unit by the Center for Military History. Units can request update of their lineage and honors based on recent campaign participation, but it can decades for the Army to publish a centralized listing of unit campaign credit and decorations. The roster for WWII, for example was not published until the 50s and included the Korean War. U.S. Army General Orders (GOs) will on occasion be published with this information, for example in the first Gulf War there are three major GOs that cover most units, but there are omissions that may not be corrected for years.

As for the 2nd Battalion, 127th Infantry, Wisconsin Army National Guard, it already has a distinguished combat record in previous wars. It served in the 14 campaigns in the Civil War, one in the War with Spain, five in WWI and four in the Pacific in WWII. It has two Presidental Commendations from WWII (the highest award a unit can receive) and French Croix de Guerre with Palm for WWI and A Philippine Presidental Unit Citation from WWII.

The U.S. Army no longer has true Regiments like those in the UK. Yes, there are a few Armored Cavalry Regiments and some of the brigades in the 101st and 82nd Airborne Divisions are also called Regiments, but except for military lineage and honors the traditional regimental structure has been gone since the late 50s.

Kevin

Edited March 11, 2006 by ehrentitle

[bigjarofwasps]

Many thanks Kevin, that was a very interesting read!!!! I was particularly interested in the 127th, involvement in the various wars. Am I right in thinking that even during these periods, they were made up of volunteers, like British Yeomanry & TA Regiments?

[ehrentitle]

Many thanks Kevin, that was a very interesting read!!!! I was particularly interested in the 127th, involvement in the various wars. Am I right in thinking that even during these periods, they were made up of volunteers, like British Yeomanry & TA Regiments?

The US Army is an ALL volunteer force, the difference with the National Guard is that they are under the control of the state's governor until "federalized" or "activated", i.e. brought on active duty. During WWII these units were brought on active duty for duration of the war, plus 6 months. While in state service these units are usually involved in training, disaster relief and on very rare occasions, civil unrest. Operation Iraqi Freedom (I guess OP Telic for the UK) has been the largest moblization of National Guard and Reserve forces since WWII. Several of these units saw service during Desert Storm and a few in Somalia, Haiti, Bosina, etc... but many had not been brought on active duty since WWII or the Korean War. These units have a good share of soldiers who completed their active duty term of service and are serving in the reserves either by choice or to complete their total service obligation (between 6-8 years of service so someone who served 4 years in the active force would have to serve 2-4 years in the reserves). Kevin

[bigjarofwasps]

Cheers Kevin, it appears to be very similar to our Yeomanry/TA Units.

[Dave Danner]

These units have a good share of soldiers who completed their active duty term of service and are serving in the reserves either by choice or to complete their total service obligation (between 6-8 years of service so someone who served 4 years in the active force would have to serve 2-4 years in the reserves). Kevin

Just to be clearer, when you complete active service, you do not have to go to a Reserve or National Guard unit. For the time you have left on your service obligation, you would be in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) unless you chose to join a Reserve or National Guard unit. IRR members are not paid and do not drill; they are a manpower pool. You join a Reserve or National Guard unit if you want to continue to train and serve, earn reserve pay and earn points toward retirement.

[ehrentitle]

Just to be clearer, when you complete active service, you do not have to go to a Reserve or National Guard unit. For the time you have left on your service obligation, you would be in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) unless you chose to join a Reserve or National Guard unit. IRR members are not paid and do not drill; they are a manpower pool. You join a Reserve or National Guard unit if you want to continue to train and serve, earn reserve pay and earn points toward retirement.

Dave thanks for the clarification. It also should be noted that the IRR soldiers are not immune to being called to active service on short notice. Even former soldiers who thought they had met their service obligation years ago are being called back to active service as highlighted a few months ago on the US Newsmagazine 60 Minutes. Kevin

[Dave Danner]

Dave thanks for the clarification. It also should be noted that the IRR soldiers are not immune to being called to active service on short notice. Even former soldiers who thought they had met their service obligation years ago are being called back to active service as highlighted a few months ago on the US Newsmagazine 60 Minutes. Kevin

I was going to add that, as well as something about IMAs, AGR and the like, but I didn't want to get too complicated.

IMAs, or Individual Mobilization Augmentees, for those who are interested, are drilling reservists, but they are attached to active units/commands instead of Reserve or National Guard units. Typically, they are attached to higher staffs, since active troop units have little use for someone who only shows up once a month.

AGR is the Active Guard Reserve. These are mainly Reserve and National Guard soldiers who are on active duty to administer, recruit, train, etc. Reserve and Guard units. AGR members also serve on the Army Staff and at the National Guard Bureau. These are the "full-timers" in a reserve unit, and are vital to getting soldiers their pay, school slots, etc.