fake Regimental Badge ID

[AJHaslett]

Hello all,

It's been awhile since I was on here, out of the game these days for the most part.

I've attached photos of what I understand to be an Imperial Russian badge.  I'm guessing this is a regimental badge or similar, but despite searching on here and online generally I've been unsuccessful at finding an exact match.   Can anyone help?

I am out of my depths here, but am aware that these are a real minefield as far as reproductions go.  I don't know what kind of a chance this one has at being genuine...personally I don't get the "warm fuzzies".  

These are the only photos I have at the moment...I can probably get some more.

I'd appreciate any help you may be able to offer.

Cheers,

Adam

Edited July 26, 2015 by TacHel

[paul wood]

It's the badge of the 1st Sumy Hussar Regiment of his Majesty king Frederick VIII of Denmark, established 13 December 1908.

Would need better images to be absolutely certain but they are extensively copied.

 

Paul

[AJHaslett]

Paul,

 

Thanks for your reply and for the information.  Much appreciated.

This came in to my mother's shop.  No idea of the provenance.  I'll see if I can arrange some better photos for review, although I'd wager it's not right and one of the many reproductions floating around.

 

Cheers,

 

Adam

[JapanX]

Fake

[AJHaslett]

Thank you for confirming my suspicions.  I'll have her send it back to whence it came.

 

 

[Mathomhaus]

Many imperial badges as well all of the old orders are being extensively faked and sold in Russian museum gift shops and high end stores, primarily to tourists. There was even a selection on offer in the St. Petersburg Mint gift shop at one point in 2005 or 2006; while in that shop, I once overheard two Germans debating whether the copies were good enough to pass off as real. They finally decided not to invest in them. 

I doubt that explanations as to the fakes' true nature are ever offered to the tourists who buy them. Other than a few batches that were sold at gun shows in Maryland and elsewhere in the mid-90s by enterprising Russians, most of the fakes I've seen here in the US were originally sold in Russia as costume jewelry!

Regards

 

Edited June 25, 2015 by Mathomhaus

[paul wood]

I confess I was 99% certain it was wrong but having condemned the odd genuine item due to poor photographs I never like to condemn things unless I am 110% sure.

The Russian souvenir pieces are truly awful but in the early 1990s there was a Russian gentleman based in the US who was marketing the most fantastic quality fakes of rare Russian badges, including the Royal yacht badge and the rare guard units. The way you could tell they were fakes were that they were too good with absolutely perfectly struck hallmarks. I wouldn't be surprised if some of that work resides in a few good collections.

Paul 

[Mathomhaus]

I used to be a regular dealer at a militaria show in suburban NYC back in the 80s and 90s. At one show, the wife of a very prominent and well regarded dealer stopped by my tables with a message from her husband: I should be on my guard because there was a Russian fellow approaching dealers at the show with gold Order of St. Stanislaus badges that looked good but were very definitely recently made. On my guard, I passed on the crosses when I was approached.

What eventually happened at that and apparently other shows was that the faker couldn't sell his wares. Why? Well, dealers who weren't interested in Russian orders were not about to pay his prices (even if the crosses were made of gold) and those dealers who were attuned to Russian medals knew enough to steer completely clear of his pretty baubles.

A few months later, I went to the huge midwinter trade show for gift shop dealers at the Javitts Center in NYC and discovered on one of the dealer's tables a selection of gold St.Stanislaus badges on fine chains with large crystals in the centers of the crosses in place of the saint's monogram.. Apparently, the NYC jeweler who had been counterfeiting the badges had given up trying to flog his products as original to collectors and dealers and was trying at that point to recoup his investment by selling everything he'd made as very high end costume jewelry!

Regards

Edited June 26, 2015 by Mathomhaus

[Yankee]

You Gentlemen know if those early imposing St.Stanislaus Russian made badges from the 2nd quarter 19th century, having those fully extended wings & the two digit number for year are being faked in the 2nd and 3rd class?  Thanks in advance.

 

[paul wood]

I personally haven't seen any good touching eagle fakes, I have seen several that wouldn't fool a gentleman with a white stick and a Labrador.

Paul

 

[Yankee]

Thanks for that Paul. Good to know somethings are still sacred.

Luckily the badges are easier to duplicate than the enamel orders for the most part.....