Who wore the Flamethrower badge ?

[Chris Boonzaier]

I am starting a new thread to keep any ideas together here...

I am still unclear as to who wore the Skull badge? What kind of badge was it? i.e. WHO wore it, WHY did they get it, at what stage in their career as a flamethrower guy did a soldier get it?

Is it a

a) Bewährungs Abzeichen

b) Tätigkeits Abzeichen

c) Unit badge?

Any ideas or theories?

Best

Chris

[The Prussian]

Hi Chris!

The Garde-Res.Pi.Rgt. was set-up in april 1916 by a "joining together" of all Flammenwerfer-Kompanien. Its 12 companies were set in action in different battles. Each Sturm-Bataillon had a Flammenwerferzug.

The regiment recieved the skullhead after 150 flamethrower-attacks at Verdun. (A.K.O. from 28.7.1916)

So, it´ll be a combat and/or a unit badge (patch)

http://www.tapferes-westfalen.de/wissen/flammen_abzeichen.htm

http://www.kaiserscross.com/40029/76401.html

Edited July 4, 2015 by The Prussian

[Chris Boonzaier]

Klar, but with what Criteria?

a) Bewährungs Abzeichen - Did every FW operater posted to the unit get one? i.e. day one in the regiment "and here is your badge!" or was it a Bewährungs Abzeichen, and given to guys who had "made their bones" ... i.e. had participated in an attack or something

b)  Tätigkeits Abzeichen - Was it only worn by men in the regiment who were FW Operators .... or.....

c) Unit Badge - was it a unit badge for all men in the regiment?

 

That is 3 very different things indeed....

[The Prussian]

As far as I know was it a unit badge for every single man in that unit.

But that´s just my opinion...

Edited July 4, 2015 by The Prussian

[Chris Boonzaier]

Every man in the unit would include men who were not FW operators, which would devaluate the badge as it would include cooks, clerks and mechanics ?

Also, does an "elite" unit give its badge to recruits just arrived out of basic training or do they have to go the extra mile to be accepted?

Most units at the front did not get recruits directly from the Ersatz Battalion but had Feldrekrutendepots where they were retrained or "geschliffen" behind the front by veterans with more recent combat experiance.... I doubt that the FW would have guys right out of training right into combat without having training behind the front?

If the badge was as "Tätigkeits" badge, i.e. only for men who were actually trained FW operaters, it could explain why some men wore it and some did not?

[The Prussian]

The FW didn´t belong to the Sturmbataillone. The FW detachements were accorded to those bataillons, so they didn´t have an own staff, just fighting personal. Do you have photos of FW men without the badge?

Edited July 4, 2015 by The Prussian

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

It had a Regimental Depot and staff, including Regimental staff, Staff for each of the battalions, administration, Maintenence, Paymaster, Gefechts Baggage, recruit section etc, etc... so men who had functions other than being FW operators.

TomW mentions photos with men without the badge mixed in with men with them

 

Best

Chris

Edited July 4, 2015 by Chris Boonzaier

[The Prussian]

All sources say, that Wilhelm gave the badge to the "Regiment", so probably to all members.

You are right with the staffs!!

I´ve got a nother souce, that said, the FW were attached to the armies:

Regimental staff: to Heeresgruppe Kronprinz

Staff I.Btl.: Heeresgruppe bayerischer Kronprinz

Staff II.Btl.: XVIII.AK

Staff III.Btl.: Armeebateilung A, later Heeresgruppe Albrecht v. Württemberg

1.Kp.: 2.Armee, later 6.Armee

2.Kp.: 5.Armee, later 6.Armee

3.Kp.: 8.Armee, 18.Armee, Heeresgruppe Linsingen, 5.Armee, 7.Armee

4.Kp.: Armeeabteilung B, 5.Armee, XVII.Armee

5.Kp.: 5.Armee, 6.Armee

6.Kp.: 6.Armee, 5.Armee, 2.Armee

7.Kp.: 8.Armee, 5.Armee

8.Kp.: 7.Armee

9.Kp.: 18.Armee, 5.Armee, 7.Armee

10.Kp.: 6.Armee, 5.Armee, Armeeabteilung A

11.Kp.: 18.Armee, 5.Armee, 1.Armee

12.Kp.: 18.Armee, Armeeabteilung B

Rekrutendepot: Heeresgruppe dt. Kronprinz

Versuchsabteilung: Heersgruppe dt. kronprinz

It seems, that only three Sturmbataillone had permanent FWs:
Btl.3, 5 and 17

3 and 17 had one FW-detachement (5 Trupps à 2 FW)

5 had one Trupp with 2 FW

 

I am not sure, if only those men did recieve the skullhead, who served during the 150 attacks near Verdun...

Tankograd N°1002 says:

"His majesty, the Kaiser and King, has at my recommendation, decreed that the GRPR should wear during the war on the sleeve of its uniform an insignia in the form of a death´s head"

and

"The GRPR and FWs of Sturmbataillon Rohr (5) were the only units to be awarded the desth´s head insignia."

Edited July 4, 2015 by The Prussian

[Chris Boonzaier]

Its the same with things like the KSK in Calw, for every trained operational soldier there are a number of Support guys in the unit who are not badged as KSK.

I have a SB group with a Zeugniss for the paymaster, in it the SB commander specifically mentions the administrative problems caused when groups of men are rotated to other units because the Battalion staff is still responsible for them, for logging their pay, for tracking their movements, for keeping their paperwork up to date etc.

My guess, which is as good as any I think, is that maybe after training at the ersatz battalion the guys were polished up and gained a bit of experiance at the Feldrekruten section of the regiment and were then badged, maybe even after having taken part in a combat action?

It is just a feeling based on experiance, but I think in most units the older guys insist that the younger guys in some way have to earn the right to wear the badge, even if it is only a bit more training at the unit?

To see raw recruits wearing it when veterans were probably proud of it probably was not "on" ?

"Newbies" in a unit are seldom accepted from day one...

[The Prussian]

I agree.

Maybe it´s the same system as with the Souville badge. Only those did recieve the Souville badge, if they were in the hot zone

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

 

it may not even have been neccessary to have been in combat, but no units accept new recruits as "full members" without them having been around a bit... first thing they hear is "I know what they said back at basic training... but now on to serious things...."

[KIR]

Hi Chris,

for example the Granatwerfer-Abzeichen was called: Abzeichen für Sonderausbildungen. *

Best regards,

Jens

 

* Kraus: „Die feldgraue Uniformierung…“, Band 1 - Seite 327.

Edited July 4, 2015 by KIR

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

OK, so there we have a Qualification/Tätigkeits Abzeichen,

[Robin Lumsden]

I tend to agree.

A badge for qualified flamethrower operators only.

That would explain it's continued use (in various guises) into the Freikorps era, i.e. the wearer regarded it as a qualification badge, not a unit badge.

 

Edited July 4, 2015 by Robin Lumsden

[Robin Lumsden]

Little Willi intended it for GRPR qualified flamethrowers only, I think.