Turkey Turkish War Medal

[Stogieman]

...... in thinking about this for the last few minutes..... I have never seen a "foreign" award from a German maker/jeweler that had a case titled in the "foreign" language. The cases either have a German language title, abbreviation or nothing at all. But these TWM cases are titled in Arabic........ which of course then comes the next question:

If a Turkish maker, why the "Roman" letters for the maker's name stamp???

[David Gregory]

If B.B. & Co. was a Turkish company and expected to export any of its products, it would make sense to use Latin alphabet characters for customers outside the Arab-speaking world, rather than something many people would not even recognise as writing, let alone a name.

[HeikoGrusdat]

here are some of my moons, the one on the top is your ebay-moon Stogie which deceided to share my collection, very good opinion in my eyes...

The maker is not to see on the picture, it is not Schneider Wein, but our old friends from the high class order society of Austria "Br?der Schneider Wien" (Schneider Brothers Vienna) - I haven`t had a moon of that maker before... very rare!!!!

It is a very good quality work, unfortunately damaged, but still good to look at...

Heiko

[HeikoGrusdat]

"Br?der Schneider Wien"

[HeikoGrusdat]

detail...

[Les]

Gentlemen, for your viewing pleasure, three of mine. The one on the left is a Godet made item (GODET-BERLIN stamped on the pin with an Austrian import mark partially obscuring the word Berlin), one of the commonplace "BB" made ones, and the one on the right is top notch quality but nary a mark or indication of who made it. I've shown it to at least one Turkish medal specialist (on "another forum") and he said he never saw another like it. I bought all of these within the last five years or so, and prices....not much more than a decent EKI at the time I bought the Godet or unmarked one. The high prices on these seem to be relatively recent, and pushed at least one of the "dealer gods" whose names must not be uttered while it's dark outside. Stogie used his initials on the paralell thread...

[Les]

...and da' back side of the moon...

The photos are on the small side, however I can if anyone wants show closeups with better details of the one on the right.

Les

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes please! I have never seen the teeny tughra squiggles like that before either.

One of the things which MAY help identify specific unmarked makers' products, if we are lucky enough to find original sales catalogs, is the unique way each "swank" maker chose to pattern the enamel rays, star borders, tughra shapes and so on.

The endless variety-- for what was, after all, a relatively small retail market-- is fascinating. Recent "market trends" aside, these stars would make ideal long term collecting pursuits, just to turn up variants never known before.

Like the "straight line" Schneider Brothers, for instance. Even during the First World War they were using their later-famous upside down clover BSW mark (I have one in microscopic gold on the rim of a zinky 1917-18 Karl Troop Cross). I suspect that if the pin on that poor mangled piece hadn't been replaced, the wartime Austrian base metal alloy "*" mark would have been on it.

[Les]

Rick,

Here's the close-up of the obverse. I'll upload the reverse in a follow-up post. I'm trying to work with the 60k limit on uploaded images which can handicap hi-resolution images.

Les

[Les]

...and the reverse side with details of how the turgha is fastened to the bade, the hinge and clasp details. The construction details suggests one or two possible makers, but so far, until a marked one turns up, this one goes into the unidentified column.

Les

[Theodor]

Hi guys, great stars you have! Not long ago I managed at last to find one for myself. It's a BB&Co marked. The seller has had other in the past, again the same maker. There was a question quite long ago, which maker would turn up in Bulgaria. Well, that's it! Maybe others, too, but so far have information only for this one.

[Theodor]

The back side

[joe campbell]

gordon et al -

here's a bit of a brain teaser for you.

thses pictures do it no real justice, and

it comes in a case with the upper inside lid

inscribed

Bruder Schneider

K.u.k Hof-u. Armeelieferanten

WIEN, V.

Siebenbrunneng, 18.

same manufacturer marking for case and award.

i have some thoughts: i'd love to hear yours.

thanks,

joe

[joe campbell]

reverse.

[joe campbell]

hinge, pin, clasp assembly.

BTW, i am certain and comfortable that this is

period enamel and original condition.

a penny for your thoughts.

joe

[Gordon Williamson]

Is that white enamel on the Star or reflection on silver metal ??

[joe campbell]

yup!

that is white enamel...

and herr nimmergut has

seen it.

more on that later.

so what do you think?

joe

[Guest Rick Research]

That is the most BIZARRE "off specs" version I have EVER seen!

Now, the arms I might have ventured were repaired... and some dimbulb having stuck one with white "fill in" then did the others to match.

BUT the CENTER was made with a red enamel crescent not a metal one...

so it looks like this was made that way.

[Guest Darrell]

These are great pieces. BUT .. like Gordon says ... don't buy one or next thing you know ... you have 15

[joe campbell]

this "one-off" has been seen by at least 8 or 9

imperial collectors and dealers who agree that

this is the way it was made.

i got my fingers rapped by my mentor for

positing several thoughts, but i have wondered

whether it might be an award to a female?

a non-combatant of some high rank or high

political station.

who knows?

herr nimmergut apparently showed jpegs of

it to a number of his acquaintances and all basically

said "i don't know....".

it may remain an unanswered question,

but it sho' nuff is a beauty!!

joe

[Tim Tezer]

A really interesting variant. I've seen other non-spec variants, including one with red and white enamel, but not one like this. It looks totally right and period to me, but there's no way to conclude whether it was intended for a female, a high-ranking officer, a prizefighter or dog walker or whatever. It's just a deluxe private purchase variant for a buyer who wanted to show off. Cool thing.

Tim

[Douglas Jr.]

Hi,

Here is mine. Just arrived at home this week!

Douglas.

[joe campbell]

a very fine example, douglas!

i am waiting to see a really cherry example of

the painted version. essentially all the ones i've

seen are in rather poor repair.

thanks for the fine pictures everyone!

joe

[Guest Rick Research]

Evil Ricky has/? had QUITE a "nice" painted type one

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=6...findpost&p=3837

I don't think I've ever seen a "nicer" version of that awful version.

[joe campbell]

one doesn't know whether to crawl into a hole

for lack of opening one's eyes or to say

thank you....

yes, 'tis the nicest i've seen,

but aren't there some mint/unissued pieces out there???

joe