Medal bar of the Prince Alfons of Bavaria

[Claudio]

Dear Forumites,

I am quite sure that many of us have noticed this quite interesting bar. I was surprised that it was already offered on the previous HH's auction, but it didn't sell. Only the Golden St. Georgs-Medaille is quite a rare piece... Not to mention the SEHO in Prinzengr?sse!

I commented the bar with a German dealer/collector who said that it wasn't to him very appealing, because such aristocrats had several medal bars being made for wearing in different occasions or on different uniforms. Is it true? Might be, but just the combination is quite unique. Maybe also it's not so "sexy" to many collectors because it's not a "brave Military Officer" type of medal bar.

I am eager to hear you comment on it, since I am really interested in bidding on it.

Ciao,

Claudio

Prinz Alfons von Bayern - Gro?e Ordensspange:

Bayern: Goldene St. Georgs-Medaille, Gold, 50 g. (OEK 344). Erinnerungskreuz f.d. Mitglieder beider Kammern 1918, Silber (OEK 481). Jubil?umsmedaille f.d. bayerische Armee 1905 (OEK 517). Dienstauszeichnungskreuz 24 Jahre (OEK 525). Preu?en: EK 1914, 2.Kl. (OEK 1909). Rot Kreuz Medaille 3.Kl. (OEK 1872). S?chsische Herzogt?mer: Sachsen-Ernestinischer-Hausorden, Ritterkreuz 1.Kl., Reduktion, Gold, zwei kleine Chips (OEK 2474). Rum?nien: Orden vom Stern Rum?niens, Ritterkreuz mit Schwertern ?ber dem Kreuz (kleiner Chip). Spanien: drei emaillierte, Silber vergoldete Insignien f?r Ritter des Ordens des Heiligen Jacob sowie der Adelskongregationen von Madrid und Zaragoza. Medaille Maria Christina in Silber. Erinnerungsmedaille an die Belagerung von Zaragoza 1808, vergoldet. In Schachtel mit Papiersiegel des Prinzen Alfons. Dazu eine Rechnung der Juweliere Gebr?der Hemmerle in M?nchen, 1916 mit verschiedenen Arbeiten, dabei auch die Verl?ngerung dieser Spange. Au?erdem ein Foto des Prinzen als Inhaber des preu?ischen Dragoner Regiments Freiherr von Manteuffel Rheinisches Nr. 5, 1913, auf dem der Prinz mit dieser Spange abgebildet ist.

Prinz Alfons von Bayern (1862 - 1932), ein Enkel K?nig Ludwigs I., zweiter Sohn des Prinzen Adalbert und der Infantin Amalia Philippa Pilar von Spanien, verheiratet mit Louise, Prinzessin von Orl?ans, General der Kavallerie, Inhaber des 7. Chevaulegers Regimentes und ? la suite des 1. Schweren Reiter Regiments, Inhaber des preu?ischen Dragoner-Regiments Nr. 5.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Claudio

[medalnet]

They claim that everything comes from the family. Well, some paperwork apeared so far proving this.

For the medal bar: Some of those medals decorations are extremyl rare, especially the St.George Medal, SEHO Prinzen size and the spanish badges. The base price easily equals the value for all single medals. It is very likely that this medal bar is good.

Edited April 6, 2006 by medalnet

[Guest Rick Research]

Alfons' stuff has been coming onto the market for years now, various uniforms, helmets and so on, presentation gifts to him...

it seems the current generation (4 or 5 removed) either doesn't give a hoot, has abandoned all hope of ever being REAL "Highnesses" again...

or is selling off the odd surplus Schloss Full O' Stuff (those closets having been stuffed all these decades) for rental properties or nose candy.

Hemmerle's bill is interesting, because it doesn't look like he got anything Super DeLuxe Extra Special any more than some Schmidt or M?ller!

[Great Dane]

I commented the bar with a German dealer/collector who said that it wasn't to him very appealing, because such aristocrats had several medal bars being made for wearing in different occasions or on different uniforms. Is it true?

I'm not an expert on German Royalty, but I know that among other European crowned heads, it was normal to have 'copies' (or just more than one original) of different decorations. That way they could wear a mounted group that fitted the occasion instead of remounting the whole group every time.

Typical groups would be the complete group, a 'light' version with the most important orders/decorations and a 'local' version with the national orders/decorations/medals.

In many countries it is normal to (just) wear your local orders and the orders of the country of your guests. I saw one guy (a prince if I remember correctly) who had 'localized' his orders into smaller groups. Whenever he needed to wear his orders, he just mounted the appropriate smaller groups closely together so they would appear as one large group fitting the occasion.

/Mike

[MattGibbs]

Very interesting and insightful information. I can easily imagine the need for and utility of several groups like this, especially for local and "impressive" occasions.

Regards and best wishes

Matt Gibbs

[Kev in Deva]

I'm not an expert on German Royalty, but I know that among other European crowned heads, it was normal to have 'copies' (or just more than one original) of different decorations. That way they could wear a mounted group that fitted the occasion instead of remounting the whole group every time.

Typical groups would be the complete group, a 'light' version with the most important orders/decorations and a 'local' version with the national orders/decorations/medals.

In many countries it is normal to (just) wear your local orders and the orders of the country of your guests. I saw one guy (a prince if I remember correctly) who had 'localized' his orders into smaller groups. Whenever he needed to wear his orders, he just mounted the appropriate smaller groups closely together so they would appear as one large group fitting the occasion.

/Mike

Hallo Gentlemen,

please see my post on: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=6752

with regards this Alfons of Bavaria, medal bar, the information was obtained from the Herman Historika Catalog of 21 / 22 of April 2005.

Seems like the catalog had a good few items of Alfons of Bavaria, being sold of by a relative living in or returned to Bavaria from Spain.

Kevin Deva.

[Claudio]

I found that HH sold also another Saint Georg Medal in Gold of Prince Alfons... so he had it least two of these medals!

@ Rick: When I saw Hemmerle's invoice I thought the same thing like you: he didn't really spend a lot of money for his spange considering his status... he just upgraded the bar.

@ Kev: I have notice all his items being sold individually... his MVO with sash, star and Grancross scored quite an high price... (Eur 25'000.-!)

Ciao,

Claudio

Details of the obverse and reverse, Golden St.Georgs-Medaille:

HH's description:

Gestiftet vom Prinzregenten Luitpold am 15. Dezember 1889 zur Erinnerung an das am 8. Dezember gefeierte Hauptfest des Haus-Ritterordens vom Heiligen Georg, an dem der Regent das Jubil?um seiner Aufnahme in den Orden vor f?nfzig Jahren begehen konnte (OEK 344). Gold. 50 g. Dazu das Lederetui mit goldgepr?gtem, gekr?ntem "A" und Inventarnummer "41", zwei Fotografien des Prinzen Alfons, auf einer diese Medaille tragend, ein masch.geschr. Inventarverzeichnis zu seinen St. Georgs-Medaillen und zwei Schreiben des Ordens-Gro?kanzlers Freiherr von La?berg 1929 und 1930 an Alfons Sohn den Prinzen Joseph Clemens von Bayern.

Aus dem Besitz von Prinz Alfons von Bayern (1862-1933), General der Kavallerie, stammend.

Von allergr??ter Seltenheit, es erfolgten nur 75 Verleihungen.

Zustand: I Limit: 2200 EURO sold for 2300 EURO + 20% commission

[Claudio]

here's the case with two pictures of the Prince: