Help finding information of WWII Italian Officer

[ostprussenmann_new]

Doing some family research, I am looking for a WWII Italian Officer.  Rank is unknown, but it is believed to be an Italian Lieutenant Edorado Barberis.  

Can anyone try to find out about him.  This is all that I know.

[Bayern]

Edoardo Barberis ? 

Do you know at least his birth place ?

[ostprussenmann_new]

I will call a relative and try to find out today.  Thanks for your reply.

[ostprussenmann_new]

Either 08 or 09 Aug 1879 for birthdate.

Most likely birthplace was San Germano, Vercelli, Piemonte, Italy (This was the best guess)

[Bayern]

Hello , My pleasure , An interesting point ,the birthdate ,year 1879 , so when Italy entered in ww2 he was on his 60 years old . and you said that his rank was lieutenant a low rank for the age .inclusive for a reservist called to duty. try with these : Tenente Edoardo Barberis Gazzetta Ufficiale del regno de Italia. you wil discharge a Pdf  in Italian . If you dont read Italian , well someone of your family perhaps can .The Gazzetta is the official bulletin where all  and i remark all about the Italian Army Navy and Air Force was published between 1860 and 1946

[ostprussenmann_new]

58 minutes ago, Bayern said:

Hello , My pleasure , An interesting point ,the birthdate ,year 1879 , so when Italy entered in ww2 he was on his 60 years old . and you said that his rank was lieutenant a low rank for the age .inclusive for a reservist called to duty. try with these : Tenente Edoardo Barberis Gazzetta Ufficiale del regno de Italia. you wil discharge a Pdf  in Italian . If you dont read Italian , well someone of your family perhaps can .The Gazzetta is the official bulletin where all  and i remark all about the Italian Army Navy and Air Force was published between 1860 and 1946

Bayern,  Thank you again.  These are all family stories, so maybe this will shed some light to the family mystery.

[Bayern]

Hello , Normally ,the Familiar misteries were not so misterious or unsolvable .Good Luck and Avanti!

[ostprussenmann_new]

12 hours ago, Bayern said:

Hello , Normally ,the Familiar misteries were not so misterious or unsolvable .Good Luck and Avanti!

So I just called my great aunt again last night and brought up the weirdness of being 1879 and WWII.  Come to find out after looking through her family records, he served prior to WWI and immigrated to the US in 1912 as things heated up in Europe and was in the US during WWI and actually was interned when they hit Ellis Island for a month or so.  I suppose things make a little more sense now.  

 

[Bayern]

Hello , You are in the good direction , tell me if i can be of some help 

[ostprussenmann_new]

20 hours ago, Bayern said:

Hello , You are in the good direction , tell me if i can be of some help 

I have been looking through the gazette and cannot find anything..  I may need your help.  I am just trying to search them from 1879-1910 for his name.

[SemperParatus]

[SemperParatus]

Hey brother,

Not sure if this is your man because it doesnt entirely match up with the story you have so far provided, but it is interesting nonetheless.

I found this in a 1912 Bolletion Ufficiale (see post above). 

Tenente Edoardo BARBERIS of La Morra (Cuneo province), of the 7° Reggimento Fanteria (7th Infantry Regiment) was awarded the Medaglia d'Argento al Valore Militare, the 2nd highest gallantry award, for an action in the Italo-Libyan War of 1911.

My Italian is sketchy at best but here is my rough translation of his citation:

While withdrawing under enemy fire, was a constant example of courage and fortitude. While wounded, attempted to salvage the equipment of the machine-gun detachment under his command, carrying out one of the pieces on his shoulders while being fired upon by Bedouins. During this glorious action under overwhelming fire, he ultimately laid down his life on the battlefield. Derna, 27 December 1911.

I was able to find this thanks to the Istituto del Nastro Azzurro http://decoratialvalormilitare.istitutonastroazzurro.org

Edited June 1, 2018 by SemperParatus

[SemperParatus]

On 28/05/2018 at 09:53, ostprussenmann_new said:

So I just called my great aunt again last night and brought up the weirdness of being 1879 and WWII.  Come to find out after looking through her family records, he served prior to WWI and immigrated to the US in 1912 as things heated up in Europe and was in the US during WWI and actually was interned when they hit Ellis Island for a month or so.  I suppose things make a little more sense now.  

 

This doesn't exactly make sense. If he immigrated to the USA in 1912 then he would have been processed at Ellis Island in 1912, not 5 years later when the US entered the war in 1917. Furthermore he would not have been interned due to the war since he was from an Allied country. Remember, the Kingdom of Italy fought on the Allied side against the Austro-Hungarian Empire and to a lesser extent, the Germans. An American Expeditionary Force was sent to Italy in support and they took part in battles in 1918 together with their Italian allies. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by SemperParatus

[ostprussenmann_new]

4 hours ago, SemperParatus said:

This doesn't exactly make sense. If he immigrated to the USA in 1912 then he would have been processed at Ellis Island in 1912, not 5 years later when the US entered the war in 1917. Furthermore he would not have been interned due to the war since he was from an Allied country. Remember, the Kingdom of Italy fought on the Allied side against the Austro-Hungarian Empire and to a lesser extent, the Germans. An American Expeditionary Force was sent to Italy in support and they took part in battles in 1918 together with their Italian allies. 

Well I think this makes more sense than anything.  The lady that I am speaking too, my Cousin is 87, so I think this is a difference between family hearsay and actual documentation.  I just got an email from her after I posted and she stated he came into the US from Canada through Detroit not Ellis’s Island.  I am going by everything she has stated to me and not by looking at actual documents, which she has copies of on top of my Grandma and father who have told me bits and pieces.  It would make sense.  Maybe he came to US in 1912 or 1913.  If I get copies of act documentation.  This is definitely getting more interesting and I don’t think there were many Eduardo Barberis’.  I may be wrong.  Any idea of where the 7th Infanterie was mustered out of?

Thanks so much for finding this information.  This seems like the same thing I went through with another family member on Mother’s side a couple of years ago.  All of the family stories were nothing like what I found out from hard facts through documentation.  This seems to be the case here.  If you find out anything else please let me know!like rank or such.   I definitely owe you one here.

[SemperParatus]

I'm happy to help. I've done a lot of research from Canada on my Italian great grandfather and grandfather who fought in WW1 and WW2 respectively as well as their brothers, with barely being able to speak the language. It's taken me years but I more or less have their entire service history. I'm at work right now but will be happy to provide you with wh8ch archives to contact in Italy for help on this. 

As for the 7th Infantry... The Italian army had compulsory military service, and to help forge a national identity (modern Italy was confederated in the 1860s) typically filled line regiments with men from two different regions, gave the brigade a name of a region and then headquartered it an a different region from both it's name and from where the men were from. For example my great-grandfather from Molise was in the Parma Brigade and stationed in Genoa. The powers that be thought that would help their countrymen stop thinking as regional peoples (Calabrian, Genovese, etc) and start thinking as Italians. 

(In my personal opinion, units with regional or local identities have a higher esprit de corps and perhaps this explained some of Italys poor reputation on the battlefield... But I digress) 

Due to the above reasons I found it very difficult to find out where my relatives served but I eventually accomplished it, so there's hope for you yet. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by SemperParatus

[ostprussenmann_new]

4 hours ago, SemperParatus said:

I'm happy to help. I've done a lot of research from Canada on my Italian great grandfather and grandfather who fought in WW1 and WW2 respectively as well as their brothers, with barely being able to speak the language. It's taken me years but I more or less have their entire service history. I'm at work right now but will be happy to provide you with wh8ch archives to contact in Italy for help on this. 

As for the 7th Infantry... The Italian army had compulsory military service, and to help forge a national identity (modern Italy was confederated in the 1860s) typically filled line regiments with men from two different regions, gave the brigade a name of a region and then headquartered it an a different region from both it's name and from where the men were from. For example my great-grandfather from Molise was in the Parma Brigade and stationed in Genoa. The powers that be thought that would help their countrymen stop thinking as regional peoples (Calabrian, Genovese, etc) and start thinking as Italians. 

(In my personal opinion, units with regional or local identities have a higher esprit de corps and perhaps this explained some of Italys poor reputation on the battlefield... But I digress) 

Due to the above reasons I found it very difficult to find out where my relatives served but I eventually accomplished it, so there's hope for you yet. 

I really appreciate your knowledge on all of this again.  Do you think that it would be worth writing Italy to get his records?  I do know definitely he is from San Germano.  I think we could narrow it down if the 7th Regiment was from around that Region of the 7th Reg.  It would be cool if this was him if I could get a copy of the Citation and photo in Uniform the buy the medal and make a nice display.

[Bayern]

Hello : The 7th Infantry Regiment of the Royal Italian Army was named Cuneo ,and his garrison city was Udine . the Regiment existed until 2001 . when was dissolved and their flag envoyed to the Vittoriale . but your Barberis is clearly not the abve mentioned who died heroically in Libia . If your ancestor was from SanGermano Vercellese was of thePiedmont .near Turin , 

[SemperParatus]

Here is a template for you to mail an information request (which I have used successfully - in my case they pointed me to the locale comune (municipality) whose archive held the information I needed):

 

*****************

Mailing Address:

Centro Documentale di Caserta
Viale Douhet 1
81100 CASERTA CE
ITALY

*****************

A sample template in Italian for a full request should be :

Centro Documentale di (ADD CITY NAME)
Esercito Italiano
(ADDRESS OF THE DOCUMENTATION CENTER)

Egregi signori,
il sottoscritto (YOUR NAME), residente in (YOUR ADDRESS), nella qualità di discendente diretto, richiede il rilascio di copia (dello stato di servizio FOR OFFICERS, OR del foglio matricolare FOR OTHER RANKS, CHOSE THE PROPER ONE) di (NAME OF THE RELATIVE), nato il (BIRTH DATE) a (NAME OF THE BIRTH TOWN) provincia di (NAME OF THE DISTRICT), che ha prestato servizio nel (NAME OF THE UNIT) durante la (NAME OF CONFLICT ie Primera Guerra Mondiale OR Seconda Guerra Mondiale).

Cordiali Saluti
(YOUR NAME, ADDRESS AND SIGNATURE)

************
Translation in english :
Dear sirs,
the requestant (YOUR NAME), living in (YOUR ADDRESS), as a direct relative, requests a copy of (the "stato di servizio" FOR OFFICERS, OR the "foglio matricolare" FOR OTHER RANKS, CHOSE THE PEOPER ONE) " of (NAME OF THE RELATIVE). born on (BIRTH DATE) in (NAME OF THE BIRTH TOWN) district of (NAME OF THE DISTRICT), who served in the (NAME OF THE UNIT) during (NAME OF CONFLICT ie. World War 1 or World War 2).

 

 

INCLUDE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS with your return address in your letter!

[ostprussenmann_new]

4 hours ago, SemperParatus said:

Here is a template for you to mail an information request (which I have used successfully - in my case they pointed me to the locale comune (municipality) whose archive held the information I needed):

 

*****************

Mailing Address:

Centro Documentale di Caserta
Viale Douhet 1
81100 CASERTA CE
ITALY

*****************

A sample template in Italian for a full request should be :

Centro Documentale di (ADD CITY NAME)
Esercito Italiano
(ADDRESS OF THE DOCUMENTATION CENTER)

Egregi signori,
il sottoscritto (YOUR NAME), residente in (YOUR ADDRESS), nella qualità di discendente diretto, richiede il rilascio di copia (dello stato di servizio FOR OFFICERS, OR del foglio matricolare FOR OTHER RANKS, CHOSE THE PROPER ONE) di (NAME OF THE RELATIVE), nato il (BIRTH DATE) a (NAME OF THE BIRTH TOWN) provincia di (NAME OF THE DISTRICT), che ha prestato servizio nel (NAME OF THE UNIT) durante la (NAME OF CONFLICT ie Primera Guerra Mondiale OR Seconda Guerra Mondiale).

Cordiali Saluti
(YOUR NAME, ADDRESS AND SIGNATURE)

************
Translation in english :
Dear sirs,
the requestant (YOUR NAME), living in (YOUR ADDRESS), as a direct relative, requests a copy of (the "stato di servizio" FOR OFFICERS, OR the "foglio matricolare" FOR OTHER RANKS, CHOSE THE PEOPER ONE) " of (NAME OF THE RELATIVE). born on (BIRTH DATE) in (NAME OF THE BIRTH TOWN) district of (NAME OF THE DISTRICT), who served in the (NAME OF THE UNIT) during (NAME OF CONFLICT ie. World War 1 or World War 2).

 

 

INCLUDE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS with your return address in your letter!

Thank you so much.  I really appreciate this.  I am definitely going to request the records.

[SemperParatus]

I have found some other Edoardo Barberis'

 

Birth Certificate: 

Edoardo Francesco Antonio BARBERIS, born  7 July 1889 in Savona, Italy.

 

Military Casualties of WW1 Albo Oro:

Edoardo BARBERIS, born 11 September 1896 at Cavaglia, Vercelli, Italy. Died of Wounds on 28 July 1916

 

Perhaps it is not as rare of a name as we first thought.

[ostprussenmann_new]

On 06/06/2018 at 16:28, SemperParatus said:

Here is a template for you to mail an information request (which I have used successfully - in my case they pointed me to the locale comune (municipality) whose archive held the information I needed):

 

*****************

Mailing Address:

Centro Documentale di Caserta
Viale Douhet 1
81100 CASERTA CE
ITALY

*****************

A sample template in Italian for a full request should be :

Centro Documentale di (ADD CITY NAME)
Esercito Italiano
(ADDRESS OF THE DOCUMENTATION CENTER)

Egregi signori,
il sottoscritto (YOUR NAME), residente in (YOUR ADDRESS), nella qualità di discendente diretto, richiede il rilascio di copia (dello stato di servizio FOR OFFICERS, OR del foglio matricolare FOR OTHER RANKS, CHOSE THE PROPER ONE) di (NAME OF THE RELATIVE), nato il (BIRTH DATE) a (NAME OF THE BIRTH TOWN) provincia di (NAME OF THE DISTRICT), che ha prestato servizio nel (NAME OF THE UNIT) durante la (NAME OF CONFLICT ie Primera Guerra Mondiale OR Seconda Guerra Mondiale).

Cordiali Saluti
(YOUR NAME, ADDRESS AND SIGNATURE)

************
Translation in english :
Dear sirs,
the requestant (YOUR NAME), living in (YOUR ADDRESS), as a direct relative, requests a copy of (the "stato di servizio" FOR OFFICERS, OR the "foglio matricolare" FOR OTHER RANKS, CHOSE THE PEOPER ONE) " of (NAME OF THE RELATIVE). born on (BIRTH DATE) in (NAME OF THE BIRTH TOWN) district of (NAME OF THE DISTRICT), who served in the (NAME OF THE UNIT) during (NAME OF CONFLICT ie. World War 1 or World War 2).

 

 

INCLUDE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS with your return address in your letter!

Thank you so much.  I really appreciate this.  I am definitely going to request the records.

Great research.  I definitely do not think either of those two were him.