EK 1939 My cased IC 1st

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

Okay, this one is very special... to me. It cost me dearly and not in money... in trade. And in a lost friendship that I guess I never had.

It was well over twenty years ago down in Florida. We were living in Dunedin at the time and I'd decided, after studying and reading about military history and military for ages that I'd jump in and start collecting. In my travels I met a dealer at the Wagon Wheel Flea Market in St. Petersburg. Got to know each other over time, did a bunch of deals, etc., and so I thought became friends.

He had taken me under his wing and was teaching me the in's and out's of the hobby. Got alot of very nice pieces from him and spent I don't even want to know how much money with him. He went to Europe with his wife one year... my wife and I didn't... should tell you something.

I trusted him. Big mistake as he got greedy.

We went to a show in Ft. Lauderdale... my first really big show. I was like a kid in a candy store. And he'd warned me... don't buy anything until you've walked around the entire show one full time and then go back around and see what you really want. Well, the temptation was too much. I found my treasure... a 1st pattern Luftwaffe dagger... no chain, leather had problems... just an okay example so I got it. Then just three tables over was another one, in excellent condition complete with the chain for around the same price I'd paid for what I got. I learned.

Late in the show after finding a few more smaller "treasures" my friend and another friend of his he'd brought along came over and got me and took me over to show me something they'd found. It was a small plastic box filled with what looked to me as a newbie like tons of TR goodies, some rare. The guy wanted like $700 for the box, marked down from like $1,500 then $1,000 and so on. So we huddled... we discussed and decided that if I bought the box that when we got home we'd divy it up as I wanted certain things, as did each of the others.

So I bought it, for a bit better price.

Sure enough, we got back to my "friends" place and started to divide the booty. Since it was still my box I got first dibs on whatever I wanted. We got a ways into it when he mentioned that he liked one of the pieces I had chosen... an "original" 50 year Faithful Service Cross. Now keep in mind... I'm a newbie at this stage... and I wasn't yet into Civil awards. Had nooooo earthly idea what I was holding in my hands. And the other friend was like kicking my ankles under the table and big dopey me I had no idea what his problem was.

And so stupid me... I decided I would consider trading... but I wanted a particular treasure. I had admired his IC 1st class in the case for months. To me this was "the ultimate" IC... because it had a case... had to be the best, right?

So we made the trade along with them paying me for all their goodies from the box. And I thought that I did pretty darned good and got the cased IC 1st to boot.

[Hauptmann]

As soon as we went out of this guys house (I was giving his other friend a ride home) he told me that I was an idiot... he did it nicely and to teach me a lesson. He told me what I'd just given up and what I'd given it up for.

I'd no idea at this stage that cased awards were not at all uncommon or particularly special. Nice, yes, but not nice enough in this instance.

Well, I've never again owned an original 50 year FSC. And I've never let go of this IC... it's a reminder of just how stupid and short sighted I can be.

And let's just say my trust quotient went down a good deal after that. He's this guy who has been teaching me about all this stuff. And had he been honest with me and told me what it was worth he would have still gotten a deal... not that good a deal but a good deal none the less. But instead the teacher decided to take advantage of the student. And the student was not a happy camper.

So the dealing got farther and farther apart. I mean this guy had eaten dinner in our home as our guest. He'd spent time with us as a friend. He'd come over and watch movies and now I just couldn't trust him like I once did.

Then he did it again. Another friend came over out of the blue one day. He had no interest in militaria but he was carrying a WWII Japanese helmet... in absolute mint condition and as complete as they come. Turns out his dad had sent it home from the war and it ended up in his mother's attic. She was going into an assisted living facility so they were cleaning out the house in preparation for putting it up for sale. He'd found it, given it to his son who then decided to give it to me... yes, that's right, give!

So my friend and teacher see it next time he comes over. He shows a passing interest. Talks it down a bit along with Japanese helmets in general. And of course he has things I "really" had to have so he decided to be nice and cut me a deal and take the Japanese helmet in partial trade for what I wanted.

Well, he took the helmet and took me again. I later found out what that helmet was worth... I don't even want to know what they run now... haven't seen one that nice in my entire collecting life since then.

And I started to regret trading it off even though the friend who gave it to me didn't care and said it was mine to do with as a pleased.

I tried to buy it back... even through others... no luck. He would not budge on it.

That and a few other minor things that had happened was all I could take. It ended then and there. I bought references, I read, I studied and needless to say his free ride ended. Hope he had fun and hope it was worth it.

[Hauptmann]

Now don't get me wrong. I love this IC as much as I did the day I first laid eyes on it. But again, it means alot more to me as a reminder... don't be that stupid again. I know I'll always make mistakes but I think it's helped to keep me from making really big ones since then.

Okay, now that you know what it cost me and what it means... here's the rest of the story... the picture part:

[Hauptmann]

So there you have it. No makers marks that I can fine. Passes the magnet test. Looks good... a good, decent example. No fancy pedigree... didn't belong to Hitler's pool man or anything like that. Just a plain old ordinary cased IC 1st class. But oh what it cost me... and I suspect it cost the last owner a good deal more.

I love it just the same. In a way it was one of my first real loves in this hobby... not just alot of glitz but true love. I guess in a way most things we truly love turn out to be pretty expensive one way or the other.

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Come on... somebody, anybody... I'm lonesome and bored... and she can't be that bad! Say something or I might begin to get a complex!

Seriously, would love to hear from any or all by any means possible. At least I think she's perty! Hope someone else does.

Thanks,

Dan

[Guest Darrell]

Hi Dan,

I can feel your "betrayal". I'm sure all of us can remember that first time (or 2nd , 3rd etc) where we got the shaft from someone, only to learn of it later. Nothing worse than giving someone your full trust and later finding out they took you down the stream for their own grubby greed

As far as the EK goes, it is a nice example. No problems with originality. Not knowing what year you made this trade, I can say that the difference between a Cased 50 Year Faithful Service Medal and this Cased EK1 isn't as wide as you think. Although not NEARLY as common as the EKs, they dont command what I would call a price that relates the rarity of the award. Civil Awards are not an item that holds alot of interest in TR collecting circles. I own several Civil Awards and they are some of the center pieces of my collection. Very nice medals.

Edited April 14, 2006 by Darrell

[Hauptmann]

Hi Dan,

I can feel your "betrayal". I'm sure all of us can remember that first time (or 2nd , 3rd etc) where we got the shaft from someone, only to learn of it later. Nothing worse than giving someone your full trust and later finding out they took you down the stream for their own grubby greed

As far as the EK goes, it is a nice example. No problems with originality. Not knowing what year you made this trade, I can say that the difference between a Cased 50 Year Faithful Service Medal and this Cased EK1 isn't as wide as you think. Although not NEARLY as common as the EKs, they dont command what I would call a price that relates the rarity of the award. Civil Awards are not an item that holds alot of interest in TR collecting circles. I own several Civil Awards and they are some of the center pieces of my collection. Very nice medals.

Hi Darrell,

Was over twenty years ago (yes, there goes that magic number again! ). Seems at that time the cased IC 1sts I was running into were in the $50-100 ballpark depending on maker, condition, cased or not, etc. The 50 year was running around $300-350 if I remember correctly.

It's like IC 2nds... my goodness how they've gone up. I used to have about twenty WWI examples and had to let them go. Wasn't really much of a choice but I do regret it now that I've been on here. Lord only knows what I let go.

I'd been picking them up for years and years... $5 here, $10 to $15 there. With or without ribbons, you name it. Now who can afford to do that? Not I said the little brown cow.

Sigh. I miss the good old days sometimes.

Appreciate the kind words. As I say... it cost me alot... more on the friendship betrayal end than anything... but I love her all the same. She was my very first cased award... with many to follow. Just can't resist them.

Thanks,

Dan

[Guest Darrell]

Well I'd say the Cased EKs have gone up 3-5 times in price since then, but the Faithful Service can be had in cased condition for ~ 350 - 400 now.

Wonder who made the best deal

[Hauptmann]

Well I'd say the Cased EKs have gone up 3-5 times in price since then, but the Faithful Service can be had in cased condition for ~ 350 - 400 now.

Wonder who made the best deal

Well, on the broader scale of things I know I did. I still have my honor which is more important to me than all of it. I didn't screw a friend to get it. I didn't lose a good customer who always paid right away with no complaints whatsoever. I didn't take advantage of a newbie. And I can sleep at night... well, other than my back pain but that's another story.

There's no telling how much money he lost in the long run... and how much I saved by him doing this. And again, if only he'd been honest with me and told me what it was worth I'd have still probably made a deal... albeit a much better deal, that would have treated him right, gotten him what he wanted and everyone would have been happy. But he simply "had" to get greedy. Sadly there are alot more like him running around out there... and some alot worse.

I'm not sure if it's true but I heard later he had all sorts of problems... his wife divorced him and took a bunch of his collection in the settlement. God has a way of making things right no matter what.

And thanks for making me feel better. I do appreciate that. I figure, God's taken very, very good care of me and sent a ton of things my way. Perhaps it's my payback for trying to do the right thing and be a good guy. Lord knows I'm not perfect but I try my best.

It's just like with that SA buckle... I have a friend right now that would probably want it and would probably pay me premium over that other one I found to match it... probably $150. He'd be thrilled no doubt. But I want to make sure if that is indeed the correct type, get some additional info as well as making sure of the price range.

But at $130 the other one had these awful looking dots of tarnish or corrosion on the front and mine is nice and clean and sharp. So figure that the condition has got to be worth a bit of a premium. Lord knows if I was looking for one I'd probably have to pay twice that to get a nice one.

But I don't want to take advantage of him or anyone else. If that's a fair price so be it. If it should be lower then I need to find out.

Just frustrating as I want to order my book and this is probably going to be the only way I have to do it. I just figure the buckle has been in a drawer or a box all this time. It's nice, I like it but I'm not an SA collector, other than my uncle's dagger. And so if I can get enough out of it to pay for the book and perhaps a bit over to get something else with then I'd be willing to part with it and let it go to a new home where perhaps it will get even more attention.

Well, off to cause more mischief.

Thanks,

Dan

[DavidM]

Hello

I wouldn't be to hard on yourself over this. You have a very nice, original cased EK there. Ok, you learnt that friendship doesn't count for much with some people in this hobby, but at least you learnt early what this person was like. Best of all you have invested in reference and other books on the subject - and of course joined this forum !!

The knowledge gained from your books and the forum are your best guides. As Benjamin Franklyn said:

If a man empties his purse into his head, no man can take it away from him. An investment in knowledge always pays the best interest.

Edited April 15, 2006 by DavidM

[Stogieman]

Well that's a sad story and one that is unfortunately repeated all too often in the collecting world.

[Hauptmann]

Hi David,

Many thanks for the kind words and the compliments. The old girl is blushing as am I. She says to say thank you as well.

Also love that Franklin quote... it's one I'd not heard before and believe me I'm very up on quotes from the founding fathers. I'll have to add that one to my list. Many thanks!

Just out of curiosity... any idea on value? I fell out of the loop on this stuff back in the late 80's and am now totally lost on current market prices/values on nearly all of my stuff... especially TR but much of the rest as well. Even ranges on anything I've posted would be deeply appreciated!

Many thanks!

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Well that's a sad story and one that is unfortunately repeated all too often in the collecting world.

Hi Stogieman,

Sad but very true. But I try to talk it all in stride. I went into this with the feeling that I am going to make mistakes, I am going to be taken on occassion, I am going to be cheated and I am going to have some regrets. But I'm also going to learn on heck of a lot, I am going to get better as I go along and I am going to meet alot of very nice caring people who really care and are willing to be supportive and help out along the way. And out of them I knew I'd make some good friends as well.

I must say, joining this club is hands down one of the best things I think I've ever done in this or any of my hobbies. You are all truly in that last category and it makes all the bad experiences and mistakes seem trivial.

Just in a few days I've discovered that things I had nagging doubts about are fine. Things I thought were copies are good. Things I thought were common and ordinary are actually far from it. And that I seem to have done much better in all this than I was starting to think.

Suffice it to say I feel pretty darned good right now and it's thanks for all the great folks in this club. I just can't say thank you enough.

So... one more time... thanks all!!!!

Dan

[DavidM]

Just out of curiosity... any idea on value? I fell out of the loop on this stuff back in the late 80's and am now totally lost on current market prices/values on nearly all of my stuff... especially TR but much of the rest as well. Even ranges on anything I've posted would be deeply appreciated!

Many thanks!

Dan

Hello Dan

As rough guide I'd say that a nice cased example like this, from a dealer, would be around $300 - $400 USD.

[Hauptmann]

Hello Dan

As rough guide I'd say that a nice cased example like this, from a dealer, would be around $300 - $400 USD.

Hi David,

Well, there you go... I had guestimated around $250 so I was off by a good bit. Not that she'd ever go but it's always nice to know.

I deeply appreciate the heads up.

Thanks,

Dan