7th class Rising Sun

[Ynsman]

Could someone tell me when the 7th class began to be issued with a plain silver reverse? I assume it is an economy measure, possibly WWII and later?

Alan

[JapanX]

All 7th class badges without enamel at reverse that I saw with documents (in more or less reliable groups) were afterwar awards.  

[Ynsman]

Thank you very much for that confirmation.

Alan

[Danny63]

On 7th Class enamel was used until 1946.

Suppress enamel was not an economy choice but just a simplification.

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Danny63

[JapanX]

3 hours ago, Danny63 said:

On 7th Class enamel was used until 1946.

Danny, what is the source of this info?  

[Danny63]

Oops, sorry, I did not see...

The source is an article on the chronological history of the Order found a few years ago on the website of Japanese mint. The green reverse of 7th Class was downgraded to silver near the end of 1945. This info was shared and confirmed by some friends in japan and any my subsequent studies (I always verify my information carefully) has always confirmed this data: Nobody seems to have ever seen "all silver" 7th Class medals before 1946.

Dan

[JapanX]

59 minutes ago, Danny63 said:

Oops, sorry, I did not see...

Yea, ooops ...

1 hour ago, Danny63 said:

The source is an article on the chronological history of the Order found a few years ago on the website of Japanese mint.

 

The link please. 

I am familiar with japanese mint website (and its history books) for many years and have never seen such info. 

 

[Danny63]

Quote

I am familiar with japanese mint website (and its history books) for many years and have never seen such info. 

Unfortunately I'm not so familiar with Mint's website as you are, but when I looked for this I was lucky enough to find a link that pointing there and there I found what I was looking for...

Then :

Verify reliability of the source : It is Ok (and with the mint site, this usually should be enough).

Check compatibility with others data already in my archives : no contrary evidence.

Look for tracks of existing 7° class green back medal before 1946 : not found (and never seen).

Deep search everywere for people or topic with contrary certitudes/evidences/opinions : not found.

Sharing and consultation with some friends to exclude misunderstandings in text translation : no mistakes.

Looking for someone that already heard/knew the same info with a different source : at least 1 found.

Conclusion : Info is correct.

The end.

This is my normal way, it never betrayed me and I don't understand why you find this little banality so important or weird ... Anyway, I'm sure I haven't found anything wrong so far, but it's also true that I'm not sure infallible ... So if you have something concrete that may have escaped me and says different things on this subject, please share it. I will listen to you with great interest. 

Thanx in advance and regards

Dan

 

 

 

[JapanX]

Molto fumo e poco arrosto.

[JapanX]

7 hours ago, Danny63 said:

So if you have something concrete that may have escaped me and says different things on this subject, please share it. I will listen to you with great interest. 

 

You are obviosly confused Danny.

I simply asked you (actually I had to ask four times during last six months) about the source of info that allowed you to make this statement.

 

On 09/06/2020 at 14:27, Danny63 said:

On 7th Class enamel was used until 1946.

Suppress enamel was not an economy choice but just a simplification.

 

Now I know the answer.

This is your "IMHO".

[Danny63]

Quote

 

You are obviosly confused Danny.

I simply asked you (actually I had to ask four times during last six months) about the source of info that allowed you to make this statement.

 

I think you are the confused one.

But really confused.

You can ask what you want, but I am free to answer you when I want, if I want, if I have time and, above all, only if you ask for intelligent things and with the right tone .. June 2020 was a very difficult time here, and the arrogant claim of a snow picture just because you don't know it's winter, it was a stupid thing to pretend, in the wrong tone and at the worst time. I am a polite person, so it's only to avoid having to tell you these things that I did not answer you right away. 

Anyway, I am not your student, your parent or your friend and I don't care about your opinions, so, please, try to moderate the terms and avoid bothering me in the future to fix your limits, cause I have not time to wast with you. 

Is it clear ?

Thaaaaanx.

 

Quote

Molto fumo e poco arrosto.

This is offensive and inappropriate.

I would prefer  "un bicchiere di sapienza in un mare di arroganza"

("A glass of knowledge in a sea of arrogance")

This is how we call annoying clowns who think they know everything.

 

Quote

 

Now I know the answer.

This is your "IMHO".

 

Yes, sure, I know you think to know everything...

But if it had been IMHO I wouldn't have wasted my time writing the previous post and I would have only written that it was IMHO.

Maybe you don't  ?

 

Then...

why don't you surprise me by showing to us the bright truth on this amazing subject ?

Come on, please, show me the light...  what would your truth be ?

Thanx in advance and, please, don't forget the link to source...

bye bye

Dan

 

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Danny63

[JapanX]

Yes, bye bye Danny.

[Danny63]

So is this all?

No bright ray of your light will comes to dismount my (late, humble and worthless) "personal opinion"  ?

Ohh !

May it be because the truth is just a little bit difficult to dismount ?

 

Quote

In a previous post, Japanx wrote :

All 7th class badges without enamel at reverse that I saw with documents (in more or less reliable groups) were afterwar awards. 

Did you notice that this is exactly the same thing that I said in post 2, 4 and 6 after yours?

Think about it.

 

best regards

Dan

Edited January 13, 2021 by Danny63

[JapanX]

I know that I don`t know the exact time frame for 7th class badges of rising sun order without enamel at reverses. 

But what I know is that there are two types of 7th class rising suns without enamel at reverse. 

First type have all typical features of afterwar award.

I know for a fact (because of numerous authentic groups) that this type were used for veteran awardings during 1960s.

 

 

The case.

 

 

Now here comes the second type.

It has so-called "sanblasted" reverse (a.k.a. "frozen" reverse).

 

Usually it can be found inside the cases with silver kanji.  

One of the late variations of the Golden Kite order from 1938 + period has similar reverse and cases with silver kanji are typical for 1938-1945 period.

Unfortuntely I`ve never seen such orders in authentic documented groups.

That`s why  I don't have full-on certainty that all  7th class rising sun orders without enamel at reverse belong to the post war period.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by JapanX

[Danny63]

"IMHO  On"

The first model is definitely the final version, with polished reverse and without enamels.

The sandblasting is usually an intermediate treatment aimed at regularizing the background, which generally precedes enamels or polishing, so the second medal could be a transitional production datable between the middle and the end of 1945; already treated to be enameled but in the end remained "incomplete" and delivered as is.

This could also explain the "sandblasting" of the Golden Kite, probably suspended before the completion of the final treatments of the last examples produced .

"IMHO  OFF"

 

Quote

That`s why  I don't have full-on certainty that all 7th class rising sun orders without enamel at reverse belong to the post war period.

"ALL" was the theory, then you have to see the practice...

Some inventory results may have been used throughout the transition period.

Dan

 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Danny63