Romania, Order of Michael the Brace, type 1, 3rd Class

[LuckySlevin]

Hi the GMIC community, 

I recently bought an order of Michael the Brave, type 1, 3rd Class in silver and would be very very grateful if you could share your opinion.

1) Do you think it is an authentic order or it is a fake?

2) Do you have any clues whether in terms of the manufacturer or at least the country it was produced in?

 

 

Also posting the fixing, which is quite different from the models I find on the internet:

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by LuckySlevin

[Igor Ostapenko]

from Spink ? 
I think original order, not romanian production 

[LuckySlevin]

Hi Igor, thanks a lot for your reply, yes actually it is from spink. 
I also thought it is not of Romanian production as those are generally not made from silver. French ones are generally made of silver but the designs I found online were different to this one. 

 

[Carol I]

On 12/08/2020 at 18:38, LuckySlevin said:

Hi the GMIC community, 

I recently bought an order of Michael the Brave, type 1, 3rd Class in silver and would be very very grateful if you could share your opinion.

1) Do you think it is an authentic order or it is a fake?

2) Do you have any clues whether in terms of the manufacturer or at least the country it was produced in?

Are there any silver or jeweler hallmarks on the badge or the suspension ring?

The suspension crown is very much like the crowns used for the 1941 model of the order and quite different from the majority of WWI-badges which had more detailed/detached arms. Also, the enamel seem quite rough in comparison to other 1916 model badges.

[LuckySlevin]

12 hours ago, Carol I said:

Are there any silver or jeweler hallmarks on the badge or the suspension ring?

The suspension crown is very much like the crowns used for the 1941 model of the order and quite different from the majority of WWI-badges which had more detailed/detached arms. Also, the enamel seem quite rough in comparison to other 1916 model badges.

Unfortunately there is no hallmark. 

[LuckySlevin]

I did some research on the web and will be very happy to know you opinion about the below:

In terms of the crowns, I found a very interesting discussion on the ak-group.ru forum about different crowns found on the 1st type.

 

 

I found an order but of second type which has exactly my type of crown and even all the manufacturing style is the same on emedals:

https://www.emedals.com/europe/romania-kingdom/orders/order-of-michael-the-brave/a-romanian-order-of-michael-the-brave-knight-s-cross-with-case

 

However the reverse of the order does not look correct:

So not sure, may be they were doing some fakes as this one does not have the right reverse.

I also found 2 orders with same design of crown and suspension on galerie numismatique:

3rd class:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/11040790_124-order-michael-the-brave-1916

2nd class:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/11040789_123-order-michael-the-brave-1916

 

 

Finally just wanted to post 2 orders of 1st and 2nd model with same crowns:

here is an order from 2nd type on emedals:

https://www.emedals.com/europe/romania-kingdom/orders/order-of-michael-the-brave/a-romanian-order-of-michael-the-brave-1941-1944-3d-class

Below it is its crown and also 1 crown from 1st model:

his:

 

crown from 1st model:

 

I also found an order with very big crown and suspension:

The crown is different but it has also this suspended style.

 

What do you think of all of this and do you think that the order I found on galerie numismatique of same design is a fake or not given that I saw on this forum that galerie numismatique does not have a very clear reputation.

Also do you think that my remark about having same type of crown on both models is plausible. 

 

Thank you!

[Carol I]

Variations could be expected between pieces from different manufacurers. At the same time, being a rare order, fakes cannot be excluded. And to my knowledge there is no systematic study of manufacturers of this order to help in identifying authentic pieces. I find however the use of a type II crown with a type I cross rather suspicious, especially when this matching appears with other poor details like the use of a long suspension neck or narrow ribbons.