EK 1939 EKII and packet

[notned]

Hello Gents,

Am venturing into this forum....( usually you will find me holed up in the Imperial forum)

Have bought a nice EKII with a very tatty packet today...the paket does not have any makers stamp on the reverse...unfortunately...

The EK is maker marked 122 for JJ. Stahl Strassburg, and has the original as issued full length ribbon still on it!

Has not been cut up by some mad bugger!

In nice condition..some rust to the core...the frame exhibits die flaws on both left and right arms..

Has anyone else got a 122 cross to compare this with?

sorry for the bad scan....must get a decent camera..and take a pic or two..

Its a nice cross in hand...

Enjoy!

Regards

Paul

[notned]

Righto i played with the scanner settings and come up with this...

[notned]

and i tried to get a close up of the maker mark...

its just discernable...

[Bill Garvy]

No packet, you lucky man, but here's another example. . .

obverse:

[attachmentid=36768]

[Bill Garvy]

Full length ribbon as well, like yours. . .

reverse:

[attachmentid=36769]

[Bill Garvy]

And finally here's a nice scan of the maker mark. . .

[attachmentid=36770]

Edited April 28, 2006 by Bill Garvy

[Stogieman]

Interesting packet... maker marked on the back? Color looks odd but this is most likely strictly due to the scan... oh Marcus!

[Guest Darrell]

Interesting packet... maker marked on the back? Color looks odd but this is most likely strictly due to the scan... oh Marcus!

Unfortunately that packet is a known reproduction .. sorry

In fact those type packets are rarely maker marked as well.

Edited April 28, 2006 by Darrell

[Dave B]

Here is my 122,mine also has flawed arms and full length ribbon

[attachmentid=36796]

[Dave B]

rev

[attachmentid=36797]

[Dave B]

maker mark

[notned]

Darrell,

Please tell me how you think this is a repo...

Stogie, the colour is faded with age or Sun...its normally the blueish-grey colour...from looking inside the packet...

And thanks to Bill And Dave for showing theirs!

Dave, your one clearly shows the same die flaws...In fact it loks exactly like mine! very Interesting indeed! makes me wonder if these 2 were late war strikes and Bills one was early war....

Thanks Gents

Paul

[Guest Darrell]

Darrell,

Please tell me how you think this is a repo...

Thanks Gents

Paul

Hi Paul,

Here are a few threads dealing with these type:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=145134

I cant seem to find Marcus's post he made about these. Maybe he'll come in to confirm

[Marcus H]

Hi guys,

Indeed as Darrel intimates this is a fake packet, very well done certainly, the paper being the better of most fakes but never the less fake. There are better emulations of genuine packets that actually existed but they lack this paper and also have faults in the print, the new ones though are hard by picture alone !!

Typically these are never maker marked and have a left hand fold on the reverse instead of the more normal right hand fold, not that left folds are all bad or should be thought as such at all, it's a recognistion pointer as to this exact fake.

To easily spot these fakes look at the numerals in the date and spaceing, once recognised you never forget it. They have been around for 20 odd plus years now, so another thought process difficult to combat is, ''I've have this for donkies years and it came from X dealer''.

For collectors not to conversant on packets (EK), there are numerous designations and numerals in the date, spaceing too etc etc This one just happens to fool more than most, myself at one time also. I'm in the middle of an article for this forum at Nicks request on the pros and cons of such like.

These packets, tan and blue as they come in (the above as stated isn't tan but faded of course) I've have numerous examples old and more recently purchased ink and paper date tested so as to get a premise conclusion (if not only in my mind and opinion) on these for the book.

Dealers far and wide still sell them, some with 'interesting' stories to validate claims of originality, but there is not one ounce of provenance to even ever suggest they were a copy of the genuine article. Theres more to it but thats for the back pages of the book on a few fake packets.

Each to their own at the end of the day though.

Kr

Marcus

[notned]

Hello Marcus,

Thanks for your time to reply.

Hmm, well its obvious to you, to ba a fake as i can see by the points you make. ( and some research i did )

Strangely enough, this EK and packet was part of a lot that ( wait for it) came from Samoa!!! with a lot of political items..see this thread,

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7537

I am wondering what the Germans were doing in Samoa...the person i got them off, and has the political items along with a large flag and had alot of other items which he has since sold...said that he got them off an old lady some 15 yrs ago...and that she had said that this lot had come from Samoa...

Now i know its a strange place to find Nazi stuff, but why would a little old lady want to BS him with a story like that..if it wasn't true???

The mind boggles!

So as you can see...i am puzzled when this packet comes up as fake...as i would imagine that the fakes would not have been in Samoa in WWII...

Food for thought eh!

Cheers

Paul

[Marcus H]

Well I'm not going to argue or try to convince anyone, but as they say evaluate the item not the story, after all whats it worth ? A genuine packet be worth in this condition, 15-20 euro maybe and all in all you've a lovely cross.

It's still a fake in my opinion and I stipulate that for the record.

Kr

Marcus