bulgaria First type of star St. Alexander, 1st vs. 2nd variations

[Graf]

OK

 

Now it is more clear

 

Simply the text was

6 hours ago, Igor Ostapenko said:

About museum in Sofia. 
 

We can this star ( “big laurels branches” ) with swords in museum 

but this star in awards group of general Genev, with neck cross of Scheid production 

on the photo of general Genev we can see star from Scheid too 

could it be a star from a photograph of Prince Ferdinand ? 

OK Now is clear

 

Simply i got confused because this text was under the photo of the General

Yes, it could be Ferdinand Star in the Museum in Sofia unless he had more then one

 

 

Cheers

 

 

[Igor Ostapenko]

during the reign of Prince Alexander, a large number of awards were ordered.
these awards were presented until about 1890.
 

a few years ago the awards of the Sardinian diplomat Charles-Albert Gerbais de Sonnaz were on sale 
  https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Albert_Gerbais_de_Sonnaz

 

- order of St. Alexander 2nd class with star “big laurels branches” with swords , Ivan Osipov’s production 

- order of St. Alexander 1st class with swords , cross of order gilded  silver from Osipov too and star from Rothe 

[ilieff]

Hi,

I just wanted to add a couple of images from the museum.

[Graf]

Hi ilieff,

 

Thank you for the pictures

The last Star, which according to Igor's Classification, is the 1st type. The design looks very different . Also the swords are different. Does that mean  the maker could be different We are not sure whether more makers were involved apart from Ivan Osipov.

[Graf]

[Igor Ostapenko]

On 18/12/2021 at 13:32, Graf said:

Great picture of great star ? 

may be you have image of reverse ? 

On 18/12/2021 at 12:19, ilieff said:

Hi,

I just wanted to add a couple of images from the museum.

Thank You very much for pictures of very rare orders !!! 
order from 3rd picture with medalion like first variant of first type , but corpus of star not of Osipov’s production . 
 

This star can to be from another Russian producers - N&P ( Nicols and Plinke ) or K.S. ( K. Selenius ) 

# 

It’s can to be from Godet production 

But I think it’s from Darmstadt in Hesse - Wondra or Shnitzpahn firm 

[Igor Ostapenko]

On 17/12/2021 at 12:03, Igor Ostapenko said:

during the reign of Prince Alexander, a large number of awards were ordered.
these awards were presented until about 1890.
 

a few years ago the awards of the Sardinian diplomat Charles-Albert Gerbais de Sonnaz were on sale 
  https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Albert_Gerbais_de_Sonnaz

 

- order of St. Alexander 2nd class with star “big laurels branches” with swords , Ivan Osipov’s production 

- order of St. Alexander 1st class with swords , cross of order gilded  silver from Osipov too and star from Rothe 

By the way - this Honor badge of Bulgarian Red Cross from awards of Sardinian diplomat too 

[Igor Ostapenko]

Russian orders from Ivan Osipov ,

 silvermark “double mark without serif”

 ( before February 1882 )

 

Order of White Eagle 

# 

 

Order of St. Stanislaus 

[Igor Ostapenko]

Star from Ivan Osipov after Februaty 1882

silvermark “double mark with serif”

Order of St. Alexander Nevsky 

[Graf]

Hi Igor

The Star in question could be from non Russian maker, hence different from the standards swords

 

Nice research

Edited December 24, 2021 by Graf

[Igor Ostapenko]

the stars of Russian orders made by Osipov are very beautiful and very expensive.

therefore, some Russian dealers take the Bulgarian order, exchange the Bulgarian medallion for the medallion of the Russian order and sell it as a Russian order made by Ivan Osipov.

 after such "improvement" some details remain … 

On 23/12/2021 at 22:10, Igor Ostapenko said:

Star from Ivan Osipov after Februaty 1882

 

silvermark “double mark with serif”

Order of St. Alexander Nevsky 

 I really do not like the medallion of this Order of St. Alexander Nevsky !!!!!!! 

 # 

 # 

and also the medallion of this order of St. Andrew the First-Called looks fake on the original corpus of the star made by Ivan Osipov

[Graf]

Nice Work Igor

 

Yes it is sad that to make profit some people butcher very lovely original Orders.

That way the not only destroy history but reduce significantly the number of those original Orders..and make our life more difficult

[Igor Ostapenko]

Dear FRIENDS , 

If you have pictures of bulgarian awards from 1880-1886 years, send me please to geshemigor@gmail.com , to PM box or to phone +972544763826 . 
Thank You for collaboration !? 

 

Marry Christmas and Happy New Year !!!!!!!!!!

Edited December 27, 2021 by Igor Ostapenko

[Igor Ostapenko]

Thanx to our forum’s friend for link 

 

 https://drouot.com/l/15877958--bulgarie-ordre-de-st-alexandr 
 

nice star of order 1st type, 1st variation ? 

[Graf]

Outstanding find

[Igor Ostapenko]

Yes, agree  

first good pictures of “small laurels branches” variant , only in 1882 y. awarding !

[Graf]

That is even more outstanding

I saved it in my files

Now is the hunt for one of those

[Igor Ostapenko]

On 13/12/2021 at 02:58, Igor Ostapenko said:

Exsarch Iosif I with awards 

  https://mitropolia-sofia.org/index.php/novini/421-ekzarhat-na-balgarite-dokumentalna-izlozhba-organizirana-ot-sv-sinod-na-bptz-i-da-arhivi

 

( use google translater for bulgarian ) 

 

[Graf]

That is an amazing find

The Orders of Patriarch Josif are amazing

 

I read the text

 

Well Done

[Igor Ostapenko]

off top 

 

bulgarian (sic!) TV about Prince Alexander Battenberg 

[Graf]

Hi Igor,

It is nice, however they should had  consulted us about the Decorations. {just a Joke]

We do not expect the general public to be with advanced Militaria  knowledge like dedicated collectors, therefore the film producers are not trying to be exact with the items used.

[Igor Ostapenko]

in Military Museum in Belgrade - “few awards of King Alexander Obrenovich” 

 

- “bulgarian Star of order of St. Alexander 2nd class” 

( order 2nd class to King ? ) 

 - 

   85 mm 

- 

I think it’s order belongs to Alexander’s father - Milan 

 

King Milan Obrenovich receive order of St. Alexander 1st class in 1882 year 

 

“small laurels branches”  ? 

[Igor Ostapenko]

33 minutes ago, Igor Ostapenko said:

in Military Museum in Belgrade - “few awards of King Alexander Obrenovich” 

 

- “bulgarian Star of order of St. Alexander 2nd class” 

( order 2nd class to King ? ) 

 - 

   85 mm 

- 

I think it’s order belongs to Alexander’s father - Milan 

 

King Milan Obrenovich receive order of St. Alexander 1st class in 1882 year 

 

“small laurels branches”  ? 

 #

 THANX for information to our serbian friends !!! ?

[Graf]

Hi Igor,

 

Yes, I agree the Star must be 1st Class King will never be awarded 2nd Class.

The size 85 mm indicates that bigger Stars were also produced and awarded.

Thus that raise the question whether  82 mm Stars were 2nd Class ??!!  or simply different Star bodies from Russian Orders were used depending on the availability for the moment

[Igor Ostapenko]

Peter , 
 

I wrote a letter to the museum with a request to send me photographs of the order from both sides.
also asked to measure the size of the order . 
 

I really hope that the museum staff will answer me !